Rodgers isn't even having best year among QB's, Watt is MVP· Page 8

DoddPower
Veteran Member

9 years ago

When Aaron Rodgers lines up to play linebacker, maybe I'll reconsider my thoughts this year.

Originally Posted by: blueleopard

This makes no sense to me. Aaron Rodgers doesn't need to play any other position because he's the best at the most important position in the game. Frankly JJ Watt scoring a few touchdowns on offense on a shitty team really doesn't mean much to me (but his defensive TDs are impressive). I care more about a player that scores 30+ touchdowns, accounts for over 4,000 yards of offense, leads one of the best offenses in the league, a division title, the #2 seed, and a first round bye. Those are the things that really matter. JJ Watts individual accomplishments are great, but an MVP should make an entire team great (or at least an entire side of the ball), and Aaron Rodgers does just that.

I also don't look to fantasy football for any inclination on who the most valuable player in the league is.

It's a valid debate and it's not a land-slide either way. But it today's NFL, Aaron Rodgers is simply much more valuable than JJ Watt.

Porforis
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#72

Most Valuable means to me you would trade them for nobody. Houston would trade Watt for Rodgers and Andrew Luck in a heartbeat I am positive. Does it suck that it means this is a QB award? Yes. I like how the CFL handles this award as it uses the term "Most Outstanding Player", which although still means the QB wins it the majority of the time, it leaves room for others.

Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla

I initially agreed with your definition but then I got to considering - What if Manning had Rodgers' year, and you had the possibility to trade him for Luck or Russell Wilson? Wouldn't trading for youth be a huge benefit versus someone very close to the end of his career? Trades like that aren't about who's going to do the best for your team RIGHT NOW. MVP awards are about who's the best THIS YEAR.

sschind
Senior Member

9 years ago

#73

Aaron Rodgers is the MVP if we like it or not. That recent game against the bills has made us forget how incredible Rodgers has been this season. The reason I say that we might not like Rodgers for MVP is that I understand that the odds are against the Mvps when it comes to superbowls (that was for you zero I caught on to your plan [grin1] ).

Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123

Everyone keeps saying what an incredible year Rodgers is having and while I agree it is incredible I don't see it being THAT much better than several other QBs. Romo has a higher QB rating (not that QB rating is the be all and end all) 8 QBs have a higher completion percentage, 6 have more yards, Romo has a higher yards per attempt, and 2 have more TDs. The one stat that stands out to me and is truly incredible is he TD/INT ratio. Especially when you consider 4 of his 5 picks came off tipped balls.

Some will say that Rodgers probably sat the equivalent of a full game or more due to huge leads and if he would have played for those entire games his stats would be much higher but consider this. Matt Flynn only threw 18 passes in all that mop up time (completed 8 for 66 yards) Unless you assume McCarthy would have had Rodgers heaving up pass after pass had he still been in the game you can't assume that Rodgers' numbers would have been that much higher than they already are.

Having said this I am not trying to make it sound like stats should be the determining factor for MVP. This has nothing to do with how valuable he is to the team, just that what Rodgers is doing is not that special for QBs anymore.

beast
Select Member

9 years ago

#74

he's SCORED MORE touchdowns than both LeSean McCoy and Calvin Johnson -- two very dynamic players who are both considered first round draft choices in Fantasy Football.

Not to mention the fantasy leagues I was a part of that included IDP players had championship rosters with Watt in them.

Imagine... people losing sleep playing Fantasy Football because of a DEFENSIVE PLAYER?

Originally Posted by: blueleopard

Completely lost me with the fantasy argument... a real football thing shouldn't be given out becuase of fansty football... fansty football should have zero impact on the real MVP award.

As formthe 3-4 arguement I haven't watched to see their new scheme defense this year but their old scheme was a 3-4 line-up that played like a 4-3 scheme normally would... and not what I would call atrue 3-4 (again that was the old scheme but some thought they might be sticking with a scheme like that with them drafling a 4-3 DE so high to play 3-4 old and really have him play a stand-up 4-3 like role)

DoddPower
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#75

As formthe 3-4 arguement I haven't watched to see their new scheme defense this year but their old scheme was a 3-4 line-up that played like a 4-3 scheme normally would... and not what I would call atrue 3-4 (again that was the old scheme but some thought they might be sticking with a scheme like that with them drafling a 4-3 DE so high to play 3-4 old and really have him play a stand-up 4-3 like role)

Originally Posted by: beast

Moreover, doesn't Watt play inside often in passing situations anyway? I'm not trying to minimize his accomplishments at all. But I think he's more of a DT in passing situations. Really, he's just a hybrid player, period, so applying any positional label to him can be a little misleading.

buckeyepackfan
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#76

Good arguments from both sides here.

I was wondering if any Defensive player had ever won the MVP award?

Went back and checked and the answer is no.

Watt will get DPOY, Aaron most likely will be MVP, but I wouldn't be surprised if he shares the award this year.

I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!

Rockmolder
Honored Member

9 years ago

#77

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan

Alan Page and LT won it. PK Moseley even won it once, but I'm not counting that one, with the strike shortened season and all the weird things that brought us.

I'm still not sure who will win it. On one side, looking back at that 1986 MVP award which LT won, JJ Watt is on par with his career. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if he won it. There's no player as dominant on defense as Watt is right now.

On the other side, LT didn't have a QB going up against him who deserved it as much as Rodgers does now. Marino was the only one, looking at it from a pure performance stand point, but his team went 8-8 and, while he threw for the most yards and TDs by far, he also tossed the 2nd most interceptions.

I guess they had that same discussion as we're having now, though, but regarding Dickerson and LT. We'll see who will win it. It's 50/50 in my eyes.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#78

If you are going by numbers, Romo has Rodgers beat for having a better quarterback season.

Oh, you say Romo is more efficient only because of his running back who racked up 1,800 yards rushing with 13 touchdowns?

What about Rodgers running back who had over 1,100 yards rushing and scored 13 touchdowns as well? What about the two receivers who caught over 90 passes with over 1,200 yards and each caught at least 12 touchdowns?

No, I do not want a Cowboys player to get any award over a Packers player, but when if are objective, --- which these awards are NOT (which is the point of this whole thread-thanks for noticing) --- Romo has actually been the most efficient QB this regular season. However, in my opinion, J.J. Watt is the most deserving of the Most Valuable Player award at a position the NFL deems (predicating that by the rules) is not that valuable.

Yes, Aaron Rodgers will win it.
Yes, Romo has had the better season statistically.
Yes, Watt is whom has most earned the award.

Romo will not win it because of his past failures, and that is wrong. Watt will not win it because everyone and their unborn grandchildren know QB is head and shoulders the most important position in the NFL, regardless of his insanely great season.

Rockmolder
Honored Member

9 years ago

#79

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

You're really into this whole devil's advocate thing.

Romo will not not win it because of his past failures... Romo will not win it because he wasn't the best QB in the league.

I don't know what efficiency and a better season statistically is in your eyes. Rodgers had 4 more TDs and 4 less ints, while throwing for 800 more yards. The only thing Romo has on him is a 4% higher completion rate.

Murray running for 1800 yards is not really comparable to Lacy running for 1100. Also, you come up with our receivers, but fail to mention Dez Bryant. Or, the most important part, that freakish O-line Dallas has going.

Romo most likely has the best supporting cast in the league. There's not a truly bad part on that offense to be found. Mostly thanks to the O-line, but also because of Bryant, who's one of the best in the league, Murray who can obviously run it and his bff at TE, Witten.

I think I'd even put up Andrew Luck, before going to Romo.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#80

You're really into this whole devil's advocate thing.

Romo will not not win it because of his past failures... Romo will not win it because he wasn't the best QB in the league.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder

The award doesn't go to the best quarterback, it goes to the most valuable player of the season and that nearly always is a quarterback and the quarterback who has been the most efficient was Romo. This isn't rocket science. Wait, yes it is and I'm a rocket scientist!!! (looks at paystub, ...no ... no i am not).

Several times I've pointed out the bias, yet you folks seem to keep ignoring it, just validating how strong your bias truly is. Nothing wrong with that. As I have also said, if I'm told I can have any single player, I would without question take Aaron Rodgers over any other player and it has nothing to do with his stats this season or the prior season but rather his body of work throughout his career and because he wants to "Pump you up!".

That "freakish" OL? Oh, so cute you mention their OL but not the Packers? Again, BIAS. Face it. You do not want to be objective. And it is okay!! Goodness.

You'd put Andrew Luck over Romo, again, more bias seeping through! lol

You can only be shown the door, you have to choose to open it.

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