College Football - 2023 Final Four Selection· Page 2

beast
Select Member

a year ago

SEC CLEARLY has the best team majority of the time. Over the last 16 years, they've won the Championship 75% of the time.

ACC is 5-1 against SEC teams with losing records in the SEC conference. But only 1-3 against the SEC when the SEC team doesn't have a losing record in the SEC. With that 1 victory being the ACC's #1 best vs the SEC 5th best in week 1 of the season.

So yeah bad SEC teams can be beaten, but can the ACC hang with the best SEC teams?

Florida State, the ACC Champion has a Bowl Game against Georgia SEC #2 team. We'll see if they can actually compete.

wpr
Preferred Member

a year ago

#12

But if the group that it's named after is okay with it, then what's the problem?

Originally Posted by: beast

Therein lies the problem. The tribal elders or whoever gives the votes accepts the payola but not everyone in the rank and file agrees with the decision. There is the appearance of agreement but not all do. Over the years there has been push back from some of the younger ones. It won't surprise me if/when they no longer accept the money. Then again they may always be in need of financial assistance so they continue to take the money.

The problem with the others is that the groups weren't happy... and from what I've seen it's mainly been the Western Native American that have more issues with it. The Native Americans on the East Coast (the few that there are, but as your mentioned the Seminoles) have been mostly extremely chill about the team names thing. It's just that the Western Native Americans can't say much about the Seminoles name because they aren't Seminoles and the Seminoles don't seem to be (currently) bothered by it.

But it took me a long time to fully understand the Native American team name issue, because most of the East Coast Native Americans are cool with it (maybe didn't like the "Redskins" one, but we're cool with the others). It took a Native American that had lived out West where there was racial tensions between a City and a Tribe to help me understand.

Originally Posted by: beast

Many college teams can't pay off (Bribe) Native Americans because there simply are not indigenous peoples of that tribe left. Illinois for example. The illiniwek or Illini were just one of the many tribes that lived in what is now known as Illinois. They are gone. At best they were assimilated into other tribes. It's difficult to buy off someone that you have killed off. The university got away with keeping the name because they are not "The Illini". They were able to show the correct name is "The Fighting Illini". That was a moniker given to WW I vets after they returned from France and enrolled at the University. While the NCAA wanted to strip them of the nickname they couldn't ignore that the state was named after the tribe. Chief Illiniwek was taken away.

In short it is acceptable to use Native American names, throw a flaming spear in the ground, do war chants and the tomahawk chop if you prostitute them first. If there is no one to give your bag of gold to, then you are a horrible person and you should be ashamed of yourself for demeaning other people and their culture.

I'm gonna quote that first part 😎

I think Martha covered the expansion well in her post. But yeah at bare minimum, needs to be 6. And more than that is fine too, other than I do question about some teams getting home playoff games in college playoffs and others not. I think that might need to be looked into a bit more. Especially with post game security after upsets or heart breaking games.

Originally Posted by: beast

I knew you would like it. Your welcome. Enjoy.

beast
Select Member

a year ago

#13

There is the appearance of agreement but not all do.

Originally Posted by: wpr

And the idea of pleasing everyone is simply unrealistic, heck, Peta demands the Packers change their name as they were named after a Meat Packing Company. Should we change our name just because, not all people agree with the name?

Majority to the powerful rule, not the few. And you keep implying it's about the Money, which I'm sure doesn't hurt, but some like the honor of the name as well. So it's not only about money, while I'm sure that is a factor. According to the tribe they have shown great respect to the tribe in more ways than just money.

The majority of the tribe leadership currently support the Schools name. Everyone agrees it's not a racial slur.

What if a Meat Packer isn't a Wisconsin fan?
Or Viking ancestors aren't Minnesota fans?

Should these teams be forced to change their names too?

Should we bend over backwards for everyone that's butthurt or where is the line?

If there is no one to give your bag of gold to, then you are a horrible person and you should be ashamed of yourself for demeaning other people and their culture.

Originally Posted by: wpr

That's certainly some people believes, but just because some people feel that way doesn't make it true, and doesn't mean we should hold any ill will to those that do have a tribe to give money too.

I knew you would like it. Your welcome. Enjoy.

Originally Posted by: wpr

Like my upgraded Signature? 😎

I'll probably take it out in a couple of days, I think it's a bit over the top, but I found it entertaining lol

wpr
Preferred Member

a year ago

#14

Originally Posted by: beast

I find it extremely difficult to believe that the majority of Native Americans have found all the college and professional franchise nicknames offensive. It has been a vocal minority that have been complaining for decades. In recent times they have found a receptive audience in the NCAA or NFL, MLB or even politicians in DC that have forced this change. I am not certain the percent but I would say it has been 30 maybe 40% that have wanted the nicknames, mascots and tomahawk chops removed. My complaint is it has been uneven in its application. All teams should have the nicknames removed or none of them. There is no "we give money so we are granted an exemption". The University of Illinois was just as clear that Chief Illiniwek was NOT a mascot. He was a symbol of the people our State was named for. He only appeared before the game and at halftime. The routine was an actual a compilation of Dakota Sioux dances. The costume was made in the 1920's the by Sioux. When it needed to be repaired the University went back to South Dakota to have it authentically repaired. Like Chief Osceola at FSU there was an apprenticeship. There was only one difference between the two schools. FSU was able to pay someone to tell the NCAA it was ok and U of I couldn't. One was deemed to be an "offensive" caricature demeaning to a culture and the other "respectable". The only difference was money.

beast
Select Member

a year ago

#15

I find it extremely difficult to believe that the majority of Native Americans have found all the college and professional franchise nicknames offensive.

Originally Posted by: wpr

And no one has made that claim, as clearly the Florida State nickname is not offensive, so therefore no one has claimed it was all mascots.

And yes the vocal minority, rallied the majority of those that care enough to speak up. Most probably don't care enough one way or another to speak up.

My complaint is it has been uneven in its application. All teams should have the nicknames removed or none of them.

Originally Posted by: wpr

Yeah life isn't fair and we shouldn't expect it to be.

Just because something gets murdered in one state, doesn't mean all the other states should also murder something.

Fact and Circumstances always matter.

Like for some reason there is this stupidity that all State should change their flags to make them more recognizable using the simple flag rules...

Whomever is pushing that should just shut up... or at minimum, admit the truth, they want to change stuff just to change stuff.

Talking about how it'll start a new great respectful tradition, while they're clearly not respecting the current tradition of the current flag.

Florida State found a loophole through the bullshit, we should be happy for them, and anyone else that found a loophole through the bullshit.

Not they should suffer because we are suffering.

The only difference was money.

Originally Posted by: wpr

No, that's not what you said earlier. You said one group survived and gave their approval, while the other group disappeared and did not give their approval.

Approval and Consent is the difference.

You might see it as only money as you haven't seen the time and efforts they put into it, but there is more than just money.

As a sovereign tribe, the Seminole Tribe of Florida works closely with FSU to ensure that the use of the Seminole name and iconography are used with consistency to the Tribe’s values. Additionally, we collaborate on various issues of mutual interest and representatives of the Tribe consistently serve as dignitaries at various university functions.

And yes, to your point, other schools might put in more than just money. But they didn't get the consent.

Martha Careful
Member Topic Starter

a year ago

#16

The greatest logo in all of sports.
image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.
Although technically, the Blackhawks are named after a fighter squadron, the brass from the Blackhawks bend over backwards to make sure the tribe is happy with them.

Go Packers!!!!

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

a year ago

#17

Chicago Blackhawks are a disgrace to NHL.

Pittsburgh Penguins are the team winners follow.

Speaking of winners. This playoff stuff. We see kids bail out of Bowl games. Do you wonder what happens if kids skip playoff games because they're going pro? Does their NIL money get impacted at all? I'd think of a company is sponsoring you, they'd want you in games on TV.

Martha Careful
Member Topic Starter

a year ago

#18

Chicago Blackhawks are a disgrace to NHL.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

I did not say they were good (although they were outstanding for a long stretch. I said they have the best logo....poopy pants.

Go Packers!!!!

wpr
Preferred Member

a year ago

#19

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

I don't think the NIL money is impacted if they sit out. If so injured players would also lose money.

I can't see the player getting one amount for the regular season and a different amount if the team makes a bowl. But let's pretend they do. The NIL money is going to be less for that one (or two) games than he would get by being drafted. A 1st round pick that drops to the 2nd or 3rd round because of a serious injury would lose millions on his contract. At least hundreds of thousands. The NIL money for one game isn't going to be more than $100,000 or so for a single game.
Shedeur Sanders – $4.1M
Arch Manning – $2.9M
I don't know if that is per season or total. I assume it is for the season. I am rounding it up. Sanders earns $350,000 for 12 games. Manning $250,000. A 13th or 14th game will water down the numbers.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

a year ago

#20

I don't think the NIL money is impacted if they sit out. If so injured players would also lose money.

Originally Posted by: wpr

I'm not sure how the NIL money works. I would speculate that an injury is not a decision that is made, but something that happens. However, if a player elects to sit out a bowl game or playoff game, I suspect they would just claim an injury to get around any potential loophole.

Another thing to mention is it's not like players are actively on the field promoting their NIL sponsor/whatever. So if they're not on the field, what's the actual loss in visibility here? But if they were to play and they were to have a great game ... that would be helpful for the NIL payer.

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