Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

Chargers had 7 20+ yard passes (and another 2 that went 19 yds). 3 in the 1Q, 1 in 3Q, 3 in the 4Q. 19 yd completions were 3Q & 4Q.

Total yards/Q:
170 yds 1Q (2 TDs); 29 yds 2Q (1 FG); 84 yds 3Q (1 TD); 172 yds 4Q (2 TDs).

Outside of the turnovers, we stopped them twice and made them punt. 3 times, if you include the FG. The ther 5 drives, they scored TDs.

Too many guys getting wide open in the secondary, and too many guys getting wide open behind everyone in the secondary.

On the plus side, we're 1/2 through the season and have 8 more games to straighten things out before the playoffs.

Originally Posted by: macbob 


How about the other 7 games. One example doesn't prove or disprove anything.

A significant percentage of the QBs we have played are not as good as Breeze.

Collins is missed in is communication and understanding of the D as much as his play making. But the line isn't suffering as much as people say it is.

I can think of 3 games where we fell behind and the D held the other team down long enough to build 3 score leads.

You would also be remiss in neglecting the turnovers as being part of the D effort. They deffinately stopped the Saints. They should be counted as stops.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
porky88
13 years ago

Sacks are not as important as pressure. They are getting a lot of pressure. That is forcing a lot of interceptions. We are not bad in sacks. Kind of middle of the NFL. But we are around the top in pressure.

I think a lot of the problem is perception. Not actually a problem.

When the Opponents come out with a scripted drive that is designed to exploit Capers scheme and jumps out to an early lead, even when we followed that up with a gaff that cost us even more points given up. The D shuts down the opponents long enough to not only get us back, but pull ahead by 2-3 scores. Sometime more than a 21 point turn around. We go into the second half pulling away and end up in prevent with a big lead.

I think a lot of the yards and points given up are after they have that huge lead.

The D seems to be able to step up and shut down opponents when they have to. Like the end of the Charger game when the O couldn't run out the clock on back to back possessions. The D stepped up and got a critical stop and a pick on back to back possessions.

If the D is under pressure more, they probably put up a lot better numbers. But I would prefer a D that is ranked in the middle of the NFL in scoring if it means we are always playing with a big lead.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 


I do agree that the numbers are misleading. Green Bay isn’t the 31st best pass defense in the NFL. Offenses are playing catch up early because the Packer offense scores so early in games. That's all true. However, this defense isn’t as good as it was last season and you can point toward the rush and secondary communication as the two key problems. The latter is correctable as the year progresses in my opinion. I’m not sure about the former, though.

Yes, Green Bay is getting hits on QBs, but they aren’t disrupting the play. That's what Jenkins did so well. He would disrupt the play or force the QB out of his comfort level. Right now, QBs are completing too many long passes. Furthermore, most of the pressure is schemed and not lining up and just beating a guy one on one. They need a presence along the DL that can disrupt the backfield by just whipping the lineman in front of him. For what it's worth, I believe Mike Neal has that in him.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
13 years ago
While I love int and turning them into a pick 6 I am genuinely concerned when the team leans too heavily on them. They distort what is really going on. Over the years I have seen too many int that were not because of great coverage but because the ball was tipped or the QB just threw a horrible pass. If the defender had been in the correct position he would not have gotten the ball. (Tipped passes to the #2 or 3 defender are not an issue.)

The other problem I see happening is the mentality of wanting the int instead of defending the play. It leads to the defender biting on the play fakes and getting out of position. We are seeing more of that this year than in the past. It is similar to a baseball player trying to hit a home run in every at bat. I don't care for either of them.
The backs need to be consistent. Cover the receiver. Defend the pass. Then when they are in position a few times a year make the int instead of going for the big play and getting beat.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

While I love int and turning them into a pick 6 I am genuinely concerned when the team leans too heavily on them.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Do they rely on them or benefit from them?

I do agree with the notion the Packers defense is high risk, high reward. I also think the Packers defense has scored the most points thus far, right? (speculation on my part).


One example I can think of ... if Tramon Williams misses the ball on that pick six, that's a helluva huge gain for the offense.


I do think the Packers defense will get better in the coming weeks and finish strong. Maybe I'm being naive, but I am thinking the biggest problem is poor communication in the secondary. I've seen Tramon go to Peprah a few times an give an expression that says 'wtf dude, what happened to you?'.

Charles Woodson thinks the Packers can and will go 19 - 0. He has faith ... I'm sort of blindly putting my faith in his hands, lol.
UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
13 years ago

Do they rely on them or benefit from them?

I do agree with the notion the Packers defense is high risk, high reward. I also think the Packers defense has scored the most points thus far, right? (speculation on my part).


One example I can think of ... if Tramon Williams misses the ball on that pick six, that's a helluva huge gain for the offense.


I do think the Packers defense will get better in the coming weeks and finish strong. Maybe I'm being naive, but I am thinking the biggest problem is poor communication in the secondary. I've seen Tramon go to Peprah a few times an give an expression that says 'wtf dude, what happened to you?'.

Charles Woodson thinks the Packers can and will go 19 - 0. He has faith ... I'm sort of blindly putting my faith in his hands, lol.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



It is both. They go for the glory and when it works the team benefits. When it doesn't work they give up big yards.

Part of that IS poor communication. When one guy is selling out for the int he counts on the others to cover for him if he makes a mistake. When they don't it looks bad for both the player who whiffed on the play and the defense as a whole.

There are other times when the communication breakdown is not from trying to make the big play but knowing who is going to cover which receiver. So miscommunication is more than just one issue.

It can even be argued that when one of the safetys comes up to support the run on a play action pass that he is just as culpable as the defender who goes for the int and misses. I do not know what the schemes and responsibilities are for their formations. I am sure there are times when the primary job is run support. But then there are times when they have a greater responsibility to defend the possible pass. On those occasions if they bite on the run they are wrong and should be held accountable. The same as an OLB who gets sucked into the middle of the field and fails to contain the edge against the run when that is his job.

Big plays happen when players freelance and try to do someone else's job instead of their own.
UserPostedImage
macbob
13 years ago

How about the other 7 games. One example doesn't prove or disprove anything.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



Sure. The other 7 games. Packers D is giving up an AVERAGE of 400 yds/game (OK to be fair, it's 399.6 yds/game), even with stopping the opponents 16 times with INTs over 8 games.

To give some perspective to those numbers, here's the yds/game of the WORST D in terms of total yds for the past years (as far back as I could easily go on ESPN):

2010 - Den 390.8
2009 - Det 392.1
2008 - Det 404.4
2007 - Det 377.6
2006 - Ten 369.7
2005 - SF 391.2
2004 - NO 383.8
2003 - Atl 381.8
2002 - KC 390.5

The only team with a worse yds/game over that period were the 0-16 Lions in 2008. This year, we've got some company, but it's company that I'd rather not be keeping: Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, and New England (with the last two giving up over 400 yds/game).

It's not just the yardage. It's the wide open receivers, the too-frequent lack of over-the-top help that the CBs were expecting from the safetys.

My focus is repeating in the SB. Anything else (19-0) is gravy. So, does the D need to step it up this week/next week/next week? Not in my opinion. We've got 8 games to fine-tune the D, and as long as the D is hitting on all cylinders by the playoffs we'll be very hard to beat.
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
The wide open receivers is what bothers me the most. If the cornerbacks are in good coverage and the ball is still caught, so be it. It's a good play. When receivers are roaming freely without a defender 7 yards in any direction so often. That is what gets my pink panties in a bunch.
UserPostedImage
Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

Sure. The other 7 games. Packers D is giving up an AVERAGE of 400 yds/game (OK to be fair, it's 399.6 yds/game), even with stopping the opponents 16 times with INTs over 8 games.

To give some perspective to those numbers, here's the yds/game of the WORST D in terms of total yds for the past years (as far back as I could easily go on ESPN):

2010 - Den 390.8
2009 - Det 392.1
2008 - Det 404.4
2007 - Det 377.6
2006 - Ten 369.7
2005 - SF 391.2
2004 - NO 383.8
2003 - Atl 381.8
2002 - KC 390.5

The only team with a worse yds/game over that period were the 0-16 Lions in 2008. This year, we've got some company, but it's company that I'd rather not be keeping: Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, and New England (with the last two giving up over 400 yds/game).

It's not just the yardage. It's the wide open receivers, the too-frequent lack of over-the-top help that the CBs were expecting from the safetys.

My focus is repeating in the SB. Anything else (19-0) is gravy. So, does the D need to step it up this week/next week/next week? Not in my opinion. We've got 8 games to fine-tune the D, and as long as the D is hitting on all cylinders by the playoffs we'll be very hard to beat.

Originally Posted by: macbob 


Very well done. That looks like a lot of hard work.

Unfortunately, yards don't mean dick. In fact, lots of yards passing tends to be a negative.

Teams gaining over 400 yards passing in a game this year have lost 73% of the time. Most of the wins, were by the Packers. With out them, the rest lost 89% of the time.

Passer rating means something, the higher the differential the more likely you win.

The Packers D was ranked 10th before today.

Somehow I don't expect either San Diego or Oakland to have passed us.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
lolleren
13 years ago
Without going into the stats discussion, what really worries me is the lack of push up the middle. Whenever we do get some pressure from either side, the QB can pretty much always just step up into a clean pocket.
Stats can always be misleading, but watching the games, when we don't get any push we will keep settling for "pressure", instead of sacks, and the fumbles that comes with some of the sacks.

Does anyone know the criteria for which the various stats services judges "pressure"?


blank
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (6m) : found bad sql in database, maybe site faster now?
dfosterf (5-Aug) : I'm going to call that a good move.
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Packers sign CB Corey Ballentine
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : I'm not sure how to kill the draft order just yet so it's not so confusing.
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : *to be able
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : and because it's not a dynasty league (which makes a lot more sense to be ability to trade picks)
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Oh I know; I was just exploring and it blew my mind that you could trade picks because of the whole reordering thing
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Zero, I think I preferred my offer: your 1st for my 15th rounder
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Keep in mind, we do a draft reorder once all members locked in
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : You can have my 12th Rd for your 2nd round
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Hey i didn't know we could trade picks in fantasy
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Update: Rock has tried a cheese curd, promises it's not his last
Zero2Cool (3-Aug) : watch it!! lol
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : you're right, we never did leave, the site just went down :P
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Rock claims to have never eaten a cheese curd
Zero2Cool (3-Aug) : We did not leave.
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Family Night! WE ARE SO BACK!
Mucky Tundra (2-Aug) : To this day, I'm still miffed about his 4 TD game against Dallas on Thanksgiving going to waste
Martha Careful (2-Aug) : Congratulations Sterling Sharpe. He was terrific and I loved watching him play.
beast (2-Aug) : I believe it's technically against the CBA rules, but Jerry just calls it a simple unofficial chat... and somehow gets away with it.
beast (2-Aug) : Jerry Jones is infamous for ̶n̶e̶g̶o̶t̶i̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ chatting with players one on one... and going around the agent.
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Oo just saw a blurb saying that Dallas negotiated directly with Parsons and not through his agent
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : I assumed that both guys will get paid, just a matter of when or how we get there
Zero2Cool (1-Aug) : McLaurin nor Micah going anywhere. They will get money
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : the Synder years or do they take care of one of their own?
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Do the Commanders risk losing a top WR with an emerging QB just because he's turning 30 and potentially risk damaging the rebuild from
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Turns 30 this September, plays at a high level and Washington has some cap space I believe
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : More interesting is Washington with Terry McLaurin
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : I would imagine Dallas will resolve this issue with a truckload of money
Zero2Cool (1-Aug) : Micah pulling a Myles with trade request
beast (1-Aug) : Packers should make some cheese forks
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : GRAB THE PITCHFORKS~
Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : CUT HIM
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : Socieltal collapse imminent
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : The West has fallen
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : After starting off camp with 25 straight made field goals, Brandon McManus has missed one
Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : But it should be stable
Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : It's probably gonna be slower.
Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : We're gonna just full go on to the new host.
Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : What crap. Site issues galore
Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : if PH dies, there is packerpeople com available
Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : database is on new host, eventually website will follow
Mucky Tundra (30-Jul) : Zero, regarding Ewers, you are correct.
Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : Sadly, this might be our life for awhile. I could put it on another host, but seems it was slower, although more stable
beast (30-Jul) : How long will it be down?
beast (30-Jul) : RIP site 😭
Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : Site will die, I have to restart it.
Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : Quinn stinks. Lot of underthrows. (my guess)
beast (30-Jul) : How did Quinn Ewers effect where Golden was drafted?
dfosterf (30-Jul) : All I've experienced was late at night or early morning. I just figured you were doing something in the background
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
1h / Fantasy Sports Talk / macbob

2h / Around The NFL / wpr

5-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

4-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

3-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

3-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

3-Aug / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

2-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

2-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

28-Jul / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

28-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

28-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

27-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

27-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.