KRK, that’s what they do. Blame the current president (that they hate) for problems that he inherited from the past leaders.
Then, because he wants to close our borders to try to protect us, he’s a horrible racist.
Of course if the terrorists do attack us, the same people that attack him for trying to protect us, will crucify him for not doing enough.
He can’t win in their eyes, no matter what he does, because they hate him so much.

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Well, you did mention "Obama" in close proximity to a problem Trump is purportedly cleaning up. So, I guess I inadvertently added 2+2 and got 5; but my comments weren't about who was being blamed.

My comments were about the Administration announcing a NEW policy: that children will be separated from parents. Notwithstanding that separation abuses occurred under every past administration, it has never been policy. This is not cleaning up a mess; its taking a smaller mess and multiplying that mess exponentially.

Let me try to explain using a hypothetical simile: Police shooting minorities abuses have occurred under every past administration; but these never resulted from an expressed policy being pursued. Now Imagine if Trump announces a new policy that cops can kill any minority they encounter. No one would say he's "cleaning up a mess not of his creation." We'd say he's exasperating, injecting steroids into abuses that occurred from time to time.

The new policy to separate children is exasperating, injecting steroids into abuses that randomly occurred from time to time.

Separating children from parents is an ABUSE...Such behavior is expressly denounced in the Bible...it does absolutely NOTHING for border security...It greatly increases expenses of detainment. Its an abuse that actually makes things more dangerous. A separated parent is more likely to escape or harm a guard. A certain percentage of these children will be scarred for life and will grow up to be angry, some will become extremely violent. Some may dream of capping a ICE agent, poisoning a water supply, infecting populations with Ebola, blowing up a building or a nuke plant, etc. Some may carry out their dream. The US's cruelty to children is a prime reason why we are targets of terrorists.

The US is abusing children for the expressed purpose of being cruel; it is unlawful; there is no rational, financial or moral basis for this horrific behavior. And gobs of GOP money is being used to dupe Americans into believing there's something lawful or rational about this.

Barfan,
I greatly admire your passion on the issue. If we were all as passionate as you are about meaningful issues of the day, as well as took the time understand the reasoning behind each others policies beliefs, 95% of the problems could be solved with excellent solutions...
Alas the press on both sides seem to exacerbate the issues...they live on this venom and derive their ratings from the hate and malice they sow.
First, I couldn't agree more that separating children from their folks is wrong, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE ADMINISTRATION OR PARTY RESPONSIBLE.
Second, if we are going to get up in arms about separating children from their mothers, I think we should address the biggest mass murder problem in the history of mankind, abortion. We cannot have selective rage on issues. If what if are doing to children in regard to immigration is immoral, how much more-so is abortion.
Third, the root cause of the problem is illegal immigration. We need secure borders. Hard working Americans should not have to support non-citizens, especially violent ones.
If all Americans would discuss principles, ideals, and potential solutions sanely and soberly with each other, great solutions could be found.
Most important, to repeat, I admire your passion on this issue, and the passion of other members of this forum on various issues. Thank God we live in a country that we can still express our ideas discuss differences of opinion.

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Creating anchor babies is wrong though. It has been an obvious loophole in the law. Come to the US illegally, pop out a baby and then the Government is in a no-win optics situation.

The last 2 posts really made excellent points.
I have been pointing out the “abortion” problem for years. Giving baby murder a nice sounding name removes what it really is. The video “seeing is believing” should have to be seen by anyone that is thinking of having an abortion, or anyone that thinks abortion is just removing an unwanted “problem”.
And the point of illegals popping out a child just so they can stay here WOULD happen if they don’t enforce our laws.

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I think Barfarn's post was one of his best ones. I like how he and KRK have been interacting.

As far as " baby anchors" go, that is certainly true to a point. But we will never know if it is 90% or x%. "We certainly don't want illegals consuming our resources which includes any method of free birth control." So naturally they are going to have babies. Especially those from south of the border who are devout Catholics.

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Hey everyone - I'm BAAAACK!!!
A mother's perspective on this issue. The people trying to get into our country are fleeing horrid conditions, where they are threatened with murder daily. Let's try to remember that. There's no WAY in hell if I'm happy in my country that I walk miles & miles to come to this country illegally unless I've been threatened, beaten, etc. The children (most of them) did nothing but follow their parents - NOTHING!!! To separate these families is HORRIBLE!! No one will EVER convince me otherwise. I don't care who the hell came up with this horrid "plan" but they suck & suck BIG TIME! It's easy to say "but they knew what they were doing is illegal" & write them off. I implore you to open your eyes, hearts, & minds to the fact that they are human beings, trying to escape a terrible situation, & our country isn't doing anywhere near enough to allow them to enter LEGALLY!!

As a parent, I guarandamntee you that if someone was threatening me or my children, I would walk through fire, over mountains, through the desert, whatever to make sure they were safer. Wouldn't each of you do the same?

First....HEY ILLY JULES!!!!! Good to see you are still with us!

You of course are looking at the situation from your being a mom.
So I can understand what you are feeling.
What I don’t get about those people is, if the situation where you are living is SOOO horrible WHY the hell are you popping out children like a PEZ dispenser? If you really cared about them why just keep reproducing? When do they have to be held responsible for their actions? And again. Follow the LEGAL avenues and you and your kids can stay here.
Just do it legally and there’s no problem.
If they can’t “force” themselves to obey the very first American law they face, what can you expect from them later on?
Just do it legally. I don’t think that’s cold hearted or asking too much. The laws were made to protect us.

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Hmm what if the adults are not the parents of the children? What if the purpose of bringing the child being is for leverage of a family back in their home area or to be sold as a sex slave...would you separate them then? Do you know how many of these kids have infectious and and contagious diseases and need treatment? Its quite a few. I know several guys who work or have worked on the border and first had knowledge of the issue...its not as binary as you might suspect.

Perhaps if any of us lived in a socialist country, where the government decides how much you can make, what health care your children should get, what you can and can't say, or confiscate your possessions if you are too successful, you would leave that country, too. Isn't ironic that these countries being fled generally confiscate guns, property, and limit speech, then turn into oppressive banana republics. I know many Nicaraguans and such is the case. I don't know many Venezuelans, but that is likely also the case.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, let's not conflate issues...seeking asylum here is not the same is sneaking across the border for free health care, a hand out, and to illegally vote. Asylum does not come with the a right to vote, nor should being born here. If your parents rob a bank, you should not be able to keep the money.

Political asylum, great. But that term is being broadly abused. Perhaps those of us who feel so strongly about it should give from our own wallets to faith-based and aid organizations to assist the people once it is determine that they are really here because of political oppression, instead of taxing other citizens to provide this aid.

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Julie I like your post and respect your opinion. That said don't take this as a personal attack because you are correct we all would do whatever we can for our children.

So with that said I need to ask you how many? The 2016 estimated population of Central America is 47 million. More than 10 million of them are in desperate need of aid. I don't have the numbers but I would guess it is more than 50% of them. How many do we let in? If 10 million is not enough do we let in 15 or 20 million? Do we let in everyone that asks?

What about South America? That's another 400 million (I rounded down.) If only 10% want to come here that's another 40 million people. I haven't even gotten to Africa or Asia. Terrible things are happening to people over there too.

We have been blessed to be born in the U.S. We didn't do anything to deserve it. Even the poorest people here would be considered wealthy by most of the world.

I saw an older presentation by Roy Beck. I don't know anything about him. I don't know his political affiliation. The point of his speech is that we have to help them where they live. More than likely there will be many who dispute his theory. I don't know if they have a better solution or not.

I am not sure how to help those who are suffering. The aid the US has given to other nations over the past 60 years has been absolutely wasted. Most of it has lined the pockets of a few. We need a better option.





I want to end by saying in 1903 my great grandfather did what a lot of people today are trying to do. He found great grandmother's stash of money. And he came to America. In order to save money he walked from Bern, Switzerland to Le Havre, France. That's about 450 miles on foot. Many of the miles were through the Alps. Also to save money he milked cows in the field and climbed trees to eat birds eggs. Once he got to Le Havre he met two men who convinced him to pool his money with them and buy a sail boat. Naturally the Swiss are experienced sailors because of their many ocean ports. Personally I can't believe the two guys didn't steal his money. I am amazed the ship didn't capsize in the North Atlantic. (He often told the story to his grandkids, "The sail was in the water on the left side of the boat then it was in the water on the right side of the boat. That's how it was all the way here.") He got a job as a blacksmith in a small town called Metamora, IL even though he didn't know anything about being a smithy. He saved his money and brought his family over here. We all think he was a hero for what he overcame. The only difference between him and those trying to get in today is that things have changed. He came when immigration laws were more relaxed. He was able to get papers before leaving Le Havre. While he didn't go through Ellis Island and NYC, Ellis was still in full gear at that time. I find KRK's comment about diseased children interesting. When great grandma finally came over a year later she brought their 2 children. My grandmother and great uncle. One of the kids came down with Chicken Pox and was sent to the island hospital for a week. As that child was healing up the other one started to come down with Chicken Pox. The nuns wrapped the sick child in a blanket and helped them sneak past the health officials and off the island. It was believed that if they had to stay in quarantine for another week all 3 of them would have been deported. Too sick and now no money.

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