So what are your thoughts on how Dom did this past year ...· Page 2

ILikeThePackers39
Registered

15 years ago

Definitely improved. Most visibly in run defense, and that's a damn good building block to begin with. Losing Kampman (for all the BS about how he sucked as a 3-4 OLB) was hard to overcome, and I think that mitigated CMIII's emergence as a rusher - the end result was not enough pressure on the QB and when that QB had some veteran savvy they tended to carve up... The Secondary: lack of depth showed here, though it's hard to be prepared for losing multiple corners and safeties. Overall they played well (Woodson, obviously, was out of his mind), but were too patchwork to withstand some of the better passing attacks, especially when pressure didn't get home in time. I think this also influenced Capers' play calling and led to some of the conservative calls that made us all so nuts.

Give that group a rush LB to go with CMIII and a safety to play alongside Collins, and they have the potential to be really special, IMO. For '09 I give them a solid B, and there's every reason to expect that they'll continue to improve.

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zombieslayer
Registered

15 years ago

#12

So you guys are saying our lack or ability to blitz is the main reason why our pass coverage sucked? ... ie like why the jets pass coverage is good because their blitzes are good? ... makes sense

"Dulak" wrote:

Um, yes.

See Giants 2007. Mediocre (yes, mediocre) DBs but won a SB because opposing QBs never got the chance to exploit their DBs because they were on their asses.

As for the Jets, I didn't watch the Jets last year so can't comment.

I did watch the Packers. I did see our DBs do a pretty dang good job covering for the first 3 to 4 seconds, then get burned in the 6th second.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Rockmolder
Honored Member

15 years ago

#13

I thought the defense played solid in the regular season, but just fell to pieces against the Cards in the playoffs.

Other than CM3, we really had no pass rush. The Packers need another OLB that can pressure the QB. I hope Brad Jones can fill this role, but am not convinced he is the guy.

I really think Tramon Williams will beat out Al Harris as the starter opposite Woodson. The Packers have no solution for RB & TE running over the middle of the field, and this has been an ongoing dilemma for at least 7-8 seasons.

Nickle back is another weak spot that has not improved in 5 or o seasons. How is Jared Bush still on the Packers. With all the cap money GB has, they could not find 1 player in 4 years better than Bush!??!

I'm more concerned with the talent on the defense than the scheme or coach

"dhpackr" wrote:

Woodson - Harris - Williams - Lee - Blackmon - Bush - Underwood.

If you go into your season with the depth chart looking like that, you're not expecting to have Bush in a nickel role. I can not think of a single team that has a nickel caliber CB 6th on their depth chart.

I agree with you on the OLB part. I might've mentioned before that I'd like a DE/OLB in this draft. This defense will be so much better with a real pass rusher opposite of Matthews.

I think that the way we're getting abused over the middle is pretty bad, as well. It's a problem I've seen with Arizona's and Pittsburgh's defenses, as well. I don't know exactly what's going wrong, but there's always a gap between our ILBs in coverage and our safeties.

Especially Bigby seems to lack the range to cover the middle pretty often. Hawk looks horribly slow. Barnett doesn't look like a real cover guy, either.

Apparently, Chillar wasn't the option either, as he barely even played against the Cardinals in the play-off game.

I like what Dom did. I was calling for a 3-4 D before the season. I was thrilled when we hired Capers and went after Nolan. The thing I expected to happen was that our pass defense would've been a lot better. Mainly with the rumors about playing nickel and dime packages with 4 linemen. Having Kampman put his hand on the ground.

Jenkins - Jolly - Pickett - Kampan looked like a line that could generate some pressure. Heck, that same line made our defense one of the best in the league in 2007.

Instead, our rushing defense went from horrible to great. That was a pleasent surprise. Still, I think that you can win it all with the 1st ranked pass defense and the 15th ranked rush defense. It'll be pretty hard to win with the 1st ranked rush defense and 15 ranked pass defense.

Dom did a great job with the guys he had available. That one OLB will make our pass defense so much better.

And I'm not giving up on the psycho defense just yet. Matthews - Barnett - Bishop - Jones - (Rookie) looks like an awesome line-up at the LB position for that formation. Maybe put in Chillar to get some extra coverage skills out there.

warhawk
Senior Member

15 years ago

#14

So you guys are saying our lack or ability to blitz is the main reason why our pass coverage sucked? ... ie like why the jets pass coverage is good because their blitzes are good? ... makes sense

"pack93z" wrote:

At times yes... probably the majority of the season.. (2 Viking games for sure) but I would not sell that as the only case.

The Card game we were getting beat within 3 to 4 beats of snap.. the stacked routes and green players filling in roles... lack of someone communicating it all in the secondary was a bigger issue than the pass rush... we would have had to have the pass rush of the century and we probably would have still be late...

IMO.. we lacked a field general in that game.. hence where my lack of leadership statements are derived from.. picking up inexperienced players hurt us as well.. a veteran or two to bring off the bench was needed IMO.

"Dulak" wrote:

All of the things you mentioned are true but the bottom line is it was all compounded in that game as well as both Vikes games and Pittsburgh that we did not get after the QB.

I understand they were getting beat out there by being confused with the stack and missing assignments BUT I think we lost the game because we never got after Warner and he KNEW he could go short OR long all game long.

Had we put him on the ground like NO did to Favre we would have won that game regardless of how many mistakes the backfield was making. They were making as many or more mistakes as we were.

Again, I agree with everything you said here but when the component of a lack of rush is there, which it was, it hurt because Warner wasn't just beating us short that day.

We need higher quality depth along the DL. The first guys are great but after that we got virtually nothing out of the other guys and we need more consistent rush out of the ROLB. Every game we got torched we got nothin' out of Jones coming from the left side.

Keep your fingers crossed that Harrell actually is on course to come back and we pick up one other guy better than what we had last year. That will be huge for us.

"The train is leaving the station."

Pack93z
Select Member

15 years ago

#15

I love the chicken and the egg debate with the pass rush vs coverage.. as a former backer.. I am biased with pressure.. in other words, in a game I was suspect of our secondary.. error on the side of kicking the snot out of the QB and Oline. ;)

But maybe I need to watch the game again.. in my memory banks I seen slant after slant, post after post running free.. and Warner having his choice of where to throw the ball... at times he held it a bit longer for the home run because we couldn't get there.. but that doesn't change the fact that he could have picked us clean almost every snap.

Now.. on the Viking games.. the Steeler game... we couldn't get home on the pressure... and that lead to us breaking down in coverage.. I whole heartedly agree.. more so the Viking game.. the Steelers picked on the weak links as well.

I am not disputing that we need another pass rusher to emerge on this defense.. or that the inside backers need to improve on the blitz.. or that the downs need to come free once in a while.. but for that playoff game... we got it handed to our secondary by a HOF QB, a superb game plan and issues in our play in the secondary...

This I will agree upon... if we could have gotten some hits on Warner even if the ball was gone.. it might have shortened up his confidence to wait on some of the deeper routes..

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

zombieslayer
Registered

15 years ago

#16

Instead, our rushing defense went from horrible to great. That was a pleasent surprise. Still, I think that you can win it all with the 1st ranked pass defense and the 15th ranked rush defense. It'll be pretty hard to win with the 1st ranked rush defense and 15 ranked pass defense.

"Rockmolder" wrote:

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

warhawk
Senior Member

15 years ago

#17

"pack93z" wrote:

The problem for the DB's in the Arizona game was that with the Cardinal receivers the only way to keep the game in check was for them to KNOW Warner would not be able to burn them deep. Having both options available gave them no room to move up and take away the short stuff because they knew he would just go over the top of them.

The problem IMO started with Jones. The Cardinals immediately saw that he was being handled over there. That gave all the OL left of the RT the luxury to concentrate on the middle and afforded doubles CM3. That left a wide open view of the fielf for Warner.

Had it been the other way around and the RT NOT been able to keep our ROLB out it would have been a whole different ballgame. Had the DB's recognized Warner would NOT be able to go over the top of them, or, at least not enough to hurt them too badly...well...we've all seen how they play when they have that confidence.

The 3-4 is a pressure defense. It's all about putting the QB on his back or at least getting him running forcing the ball out early and inaccurately. Also, they want that pressure FAST. Right off the snap they want the QB feeling it. Without that pressure the schemes to defend the pass will SUCK. It's not built to ask DB's to run around out there hip to hip with WR's. It's just not.

Hell, we can't even rush two and put nine guys back there and defend a pass. If I had one thing I could ask Dom it would be to DITCH that defense. Everytime I see two men rushing I know somebody is going to be catching the football for a first down.

"The train is leaving the station."

zombieslayer
Registered

15 years ago

#18

I agree with Warhawk and when I see us rushing two, I get really upset.

I'd much rather err on risking pressure than letting the QB sit back and find open receivers. Unless we have 3 Deion Sanders back there, somebody is going to get open eventually when we rush 2.

I'll take it a step further and say I don't like it when we rush 3 either. I want the opposing QB to worry that at any time, he's going to have a Green Bay Packer LB slamming him into the ground.

Dom at times got too soft. I don't want to see this in '10. Err on the side of aggression. The Saints did it all last year and look what happened for them.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

warhawk
Senior Member

15 years ago

#19

"zombieslayer" wrote:

The thing is with we have All Pro players in Collins and Woodson back there and when Harris was playing and Williams back there I'm just wondering how much better it's going to realistically get. The only thing I can say is whenever the QB just stood back there it was ugly but every game we got pressure it was our guys back there catching the ball.

I don't think we got two sacks or many pressures at all in the six losses (and I don't think we got a pick either) so ALL our sacks and INT's came in the other eleven games we won. Fairly telling sign I would say.

"The train is leaving the station."

go.pack.go.
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#20

"warhawk" wrote:

The thing is with we have All Pro players in Collins and Woodson back there and when Harris was playing and Williams back there I'm just wondering how much better it's going to realistically get. The only thing I can say is whenever the QB just stood back there it was ugly but every game we got pressure it was our guys back there catching the ball.

I don't think we got two sacks or many pressures at all in the six losses (and I don't think we got a pick either) so ALL our sacks and INT's came in the other eleven games we won. Fairly telling sign I would say.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Just thought I'd correct you, we only had 5 losses.

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