Palm Sunday Poll - Being a Christian - Definition· Page 4

Poll Question: Being a Christian - Definition

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Total: 6

Cheesey
Preferred Member

9 years ago

Well, I KNOW I accepted Jesus as saviour. So I see it as I am already sealed, or "saved". From the moment you accept you are a changed creature. God no longer judges your sin. If salvation ONLY took place after you died, then you wouldn't be any different then any other person. (the unsaved)
You can't earn your salvation, and you can't LOSE it either. You can be backsliden, but once you have accepted, you are reborn. That is where it actually starts, upon your action of acceptance.
Think about this: God said that upon the day that Adam and Eve partook of the fruit from the tree of knowledge, that on that day they shall die.
Yet they lived on the earth for many more years.
God obvioulsly meant that at the moment they disobeyed Him, they died spirtually to Him.
So you can see that SHALL doesn't have to mean at a later time.

PackFanWithTwins
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#32

I agree with most of what you said!
The only thing I question is: If you don't trust the Bible as the actual word of God, then how do you decide what to pick and choose to believe? For example, if you believe we "evolved" instead of being created in God's own image, then can you also throw out Jesus actually being God in the flesh? Or the whole concept of salvation through Christ?
God states that anyone who changes any meanings in the Bible will be held accountable, and will be punished for it.
I guess it really comes down to faith.
I also don't follow any certain "religion", as the reasons you stated are so true. MAN created religion, God, the Holy Bible.
We are to go to God for forgiveness, just like you said, no "middle man" necessary. Man can't forgive sin. Only God can.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

OK so by the bible, god created Adam, and Eve from Adam and we all descend from them and their children. If that is the case, where does our genetic diversity come from?

You would have to assume that either God created more men and woman than just Adam and Eve, or at some point not written down, he would have had to alter our genetic makeup.

I trust that the Bible is mans attempt to record Gods word.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#33

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins

First of all, Cheesey, I'm not gonna disparage your particular beliefs - and those of millions who believe the same as you except to say, I don't think there is a Biblical foundation for that.

PFWT, you have a different genetic makeup from your brothers and sisters if any, and even more different from cousins who have the same grandparents. Why, scientifically speaking, would we not all have a different genetic makeup even if we all descended from the same original ancestors so many generations ago?

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

Cheesey
Preferred Member

9 years ago

#34

Genetic diversity: please remember this: When Adam and Eve were first created they were physically PERFECT. Only once they sinned did the DNA problems start. Even after the original sin, they were so close to perfect that they lived hundreds of years. 900 years was not unheard of.
Humans are all made up of the same building blocks. Fact is, there is only ONE type of human. Yes, there are variations in skin color, hair and eye color and so on. But we are all one race.
Again it is MAN that makes a big deal over what particular "race" you might be.
Sin is what damaged mankind, causing the genetic malformations we see all around the world today.

PackFanWithTwins
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#35

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

Where in the bible does it say Adam and Eve DNA was changed when they sinned?

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

How did the genetics become different if we all come from the one original (Adam). If Eve was created from Adam rib, her DNA would be identical to his, essentially a clone. Since their DNA would be identical, their offspring DNA would be identical. In order for the DNA to become diverse, DNA from another unique source would have to be introduced.

If we believe the bible exactly, than Cain had children with a Sister. Or could it be that God not only created Adam and Eve, but also created other humans, adam only being the first.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#36

Like I said, offspring have different DNA than parents. The only people with identical DNA would be identical twins. You are probably correct that Even being created from Adam's rib, she would have identical DNA. However, even if identical twins had a sick incestuous relationship, and it produced kids, I'm pretty sure those kids would have different DNA from the parents - that's just the way it is. This ain't even theology; It's science. The more generations down the road you get, the more divergent genes and characteristics get. That too is science and common sense, not theology.

If you want to sink even farther into weird speculation, how about if humans actually did evolve from apes? The first human to evolve would have had to mate with an ape, so logically, we all should have ape DNA if the theory of evolution is valid and the same thing you are saying about Adam and Eve was applied to it, PFWT.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

Wade
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#37

For me, one part of faith is believing that human beings are not capable of fully understanding God and how He does things. To insist that God's actions be explainable in terms of human science is to put man and his understanding above God. In short it is idolatry.

Thanks to the advances of science we know lots and lots about genetics and other matters. Lots and lots.

And all that lots and lots and lots and lots of knowledge is dwarfed by what we don't know about the same subjects.

Even what we are capable of knowing (through reason and all the rest), but just haven't figured out yet, is infinitesimally small next to what God is capable of.

The brain power of an amoeba is closer to the brain power of man than the brain power of man is to the brain power of God.

This I believe.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

Cheesey
Preferred Member

9 years ago

#38

GREAT points, Wade!
Sometimes we try to put God into a "test tube". Sometimes a small amount of knowledge can be dangerous.
Trying to say that some things arn't possible because of the things we know today, is trying to put limits on what God can, and did do.

How can we understand perfection when we are so far from it ourselves? We increase our lifespans because of the medical advances we have today. If I had been born 100 years ago, I would be dead by the age I am now because of my heart disease. They wouldn't have had any idea of how to perform the open heart surgery I have had.
Yet back before Noah, man lived for hundreds of years, and men my current age (57) would be considered children.
How can we even fathom living that long? Yet it DID happen. Man was closer to perfection and there were not the diseases there are now.

Cheesey
Preferred Member

9 years ago

#39

Oh....and here is something else to think about.
Take something you printed off a printer, make a copy of it, then take that copy and make a copy of it. Keep doing that and see how long it takes before you can't even read the print anymore.
Yet look at humans. We are a copy of a copy of a copy, and so on for thousands of years. It's amazing that we still are able to think, see, taste hear and so on.
To me, it's just another proof of how great our God really is!

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