doddpower
14 years ago

Injury prone....can't contribute on the sidelines. And while he makes some nice plays, he is also exposed fairly regularly in coverage.

"British" wrote:



Dude, have you not read this thread?

"digsthepack" wrote:




Exactly my thoughts as I read that post. The statistics are right there for the world to see. Perhaps other years would be different but things don't look too bad for this past season, especially considering it was a totally new defensive system, which I think some forget about.
bigfog
14 years ago
Bigby, like Grant, would probably benefit from someone nipping at his heels a bit.

Probably all players would benefit from that, now that I think about it.
"I wouldn't root for the Minnesota Vikings to win a chess match against Nazi Germany."
Pack93z
14 years ago
What those stats don't show is the confusion with movement or stacked sets against us.. making coverage adjustments are the safeties responsibility in most defenses, something we have lacked with the tandem of Bigby and Collins.

Also what pro-football focus cannot provide, and neither can any of us without a headset on and knowing what the coverages truly are, is whom is truly responsible for what past the man to man coverages.. so we can't take them for gospel. In other words, it is somewhat skewed to the corners as the safeties more times are rolled over in some sort of zone with man under.. now take a look at the Ravens and they play more zone under and over. Therefor more of the receptions are going to fall into the safeties responsibility and skew say a Reed's numbers vs. a Packer S.

Bigby, IMO, is serviceable... we can win with him back there.. but as illustrated last season... when the opposing offense spreads us out, some one in the D backfield has to make an adjustment in coverage assignments... especially in stacked set.. where we got annihilated last season.

Hence, why time and time again, I say one of our major needs this offseason is a S with a high football IQ and strong communication skills. Sorry to say, when I hear either Bigby or Collins speak, at least the communication skills seem weak.. can't speak to the football IQ without more information. God would I love to be in a Tuesday film breakdown.. and an hour conversation with Perry..

Then looking at our safeties.. I will choose the unreal range of Collins over the physical traits of Bigby when replacing one of them.

Then as mentioned, we would also shore up some depth concerns as both Bigby and Collins always seem to be nicked up.. Martin filling the 4th S spot.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
British
14 years ago
What's great about the current Packer team is that S is widely seen as one of our 'major' needs, yet we have one pro bowler and one serviceable starter there.

Everyone wants more depth and ideally a replacement for Bigby, but the fact S is one of our top 4 'needs' just shows what a solid roster we have.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago

What's great about the current Packer team is that S is widely seen as one of our 'major' needs, yet we have one pro bowler and one serviceable starter there.

Everyone wants more depth and ideally a replacement for Bigby, but the fact S is one of our top 4 'needs' just shows what a solid roster we have.

"British" wrote:



100% agreed... why I challenged Hazer notion that we have major holes all over the place in another thread. 😉
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
14 years ago

How many times does Bigby go for the big hit and miss?

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



If your asking for missed tackles, then the answer is 6.

Interestingly enough, our Pro-bowler Nick Collins also missed 6 tackles. Moreover, Ed Reed missed 6 tackles too.

The Safety Antrel Rolle, who signed a huge contract this offseason with the Giants, missed 16 (yes, 16) tackles.

Comparatively, Bigby didn't miss a heck of a lot of tackles.


Or when he takes the wrong angles on coverage?

"dhazer" wrote:



Bigby is credited with giving up 17 receptions for 158 yards out of being targeted 35 times - which results in 48.6 % of completions against.

Collins: 46.9 % completions against (15 of 32) for 306 yards.
Reed: 66.7 % completions against (14 of 21) for 142 yards.
Rolle: 63.4 % completions against (26 of 41) for 348 yards.


The main thing is the guy can't stay healthy and he is prone to alot of stupid penalties.

"dhazer" wrote:



Bigby played in 90.5% of the defensive snaps last year. He had only 1 penalty all of last year: week 3 against Cleveland.

Collins: 92.3 % (1 penalty)
Reed: 98.7 % (3 penalties)
Rolle: 95.0 % (2 penalties)

Here, Bigby does lack compared to other players but still 90% of the defensive snaps is nothing to sneeze at. He also gave up only 1 penalty all of last year.

All stats courtesy pro-football focus.

You know, if someone starts throwing things out there randomly - especially in question form - without any evidence whatsoever, it raises red flags. It's true in the business world, in academia, in legal realm.... it should be a cause for concern on here, too.

There is a reason why I compared Bigby's stats to other Free Safties - to show that compared to those who are supposedly better in coverage, Bigby still stacks up favorably.

He has his shortcomings, but there is talent there that can be worked with. I remember reading a post a couple of days back that said something to the effect of "get a pass-rush going, and Bigby will look like gold again"... I agree.

We certainly need to sure up the depth at the position, though.

"dhazer" wrote:



AADP - +1
I love stats. Thanks.

Never understood the unappreciation for Bigby. He's a decent Safety. I didn't think he was our problem last year in pass coverage.
My man Donald Driver
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zombieslayer
14 years ago



Then looking at our safeties.. I will choose the unreal range of Collins over the physical traits of Bigby when replacing one of them.

"pack93z" wrote:



As much as people like to make fun of Sharper and ball-hawking, INTs seal games. Remember last year's SB?

Collins gets us INTs. So not just the unreal range vs physical explosiveness. Collins has 17 career INTs vs Bigby's 10 and 4 TDs vs Bigby's 0 and ten times (literally) the INT return yardage.

I wouldn't mind if Bigby passed on a mean hit to get a pick every once in a while. Would much rather see a WR desperately trying to tackle Bigby than a WR slow to get up because Bigby laid him out.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
earthquake
14 years ago

How many times does Bigby go for the big hit and miss?

"zombieslayer" wrote:



If your asking for missed tackles, then the answer is 6.

Interestingly enough, our Pro-bowler Nick Collins also missed 6 tackles. Moreover, Ed Reed missed 6 tackles too.

The Safety Antrel Rolle, who signed a huge contract this offseason with the Giants, missed 16 (yes, 16) tackles.

Comparatively, Bigby didn't miss a heck of a lot of tackles.


Or when he takes the wrong angles on coverage?

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Bigby is credited with giving up 17 receptions for 158 yards out of being targeted 35 times - which results in 48.6 % of completions against.

Collins: 46.9 % completions against (15 of 32) for 306 yards.
Reed: 66.7 % completions against (14 of 21) for 142 yards.
Rolle: 63.4 % completions against (26 of 41) for 348 yards.


The main thing is the guy can't stay healthy and he is prone to alot of stupid penalties.

"dhazer" wrote:



Bigby played in 90.5% of the defensive snaps last year. He had only 1 penalty all of last year: week 3 against Cleveland.

Collins: 92.3 % (1 penalty)
Reed: 98.7 % (3 penalties)
Rolle: 95.0 % (2 penalties)

Here, Bigby does lack compared to other players but still 90% of the defensive snaps is nothing to sneeze at. He also gave up only 1 penalty all of last year.

All stats courtesy pro-football focus.

You know, if someone starts throwing things out there randomly - especially in question form - without any evidence whatsoever, it raises red flags. It's true in the business world, in academia, in legal realm.... it should be a cause for concern on here, too.

There is a reason why I compared Bigby's stats to other Free Safties - to show that compared to those who are supposedly better in coverage, Bigby still stacks up favorably.

He has his shortcomings, but there is talent there that can be worked with. I remember reading a post a couple of days back that said something to the effect of "get a pass-rush going, and Bigby will look like gold again"... I agree.

We certainly need to sure up the depth at the position, though.

"dhazer" wrote:



AADP - +1
I love stats. Thanks.

Never understood the unappreciation for Bigby. He's a decent Safety. I didn't think he was our problem last year in pass coverage.

"dhazer" wrote:



Awesome post, really shows how reality can often be far from perceived opinions, especially with someone who tends to hold grudges about players long after they should let it go. IE: Bigby's penalties in 07 end up as a negative on him in 09 when he only commits 1.
blank
Rockmolder
14 years ago

How many times does Bigby go for the big hit and miss?

"zombieslayer" wrote:



If your asking for missed tackles, then the answer is 6.

Interestingly enough, our Pro-bowler Nick Collins also missed 6 tackles. Moreover, Ed Reed missed 6 tackles too.

The Safety Antrel Rolle, who signed a huge contract this offseason with the Giants, missed 16 (yes, 16) tackles.

Comparatively, Bigby didn't miss a heck of a lot of tackles.


Or when he takes the wrong angles on coverage?

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Bigby is credited with giving up 17 receptions for 158 yards out of being targeted 35 times - which results in 48.6 % of completions against.

Collins: 46.9 % completions against (15 of 32) for 306 yards.
Reed: 66.7 % completions against (14 of 21) for 142 yards.
Rolle: 63.4 % completions against (26 of 41) for 348 yards.


The main thing is the guy can't stay healthy and he is prone to alot of stupid penalties.

"dhazer" wrote:



Bigby played in 90.5% of the defensive snaps last year. He had only 1 penalty all of last year: week 3 against Cleveland.

Collins: 92.3 % (1 penalty)
Reed: 98.7 % (3 penalties)
Rolle: 95.0 % (2 penalties)

Here, Bigby does lack compared to other players but still 90% of the defensive snaps is nothing to sneeze at. He also gave up only 1 penalty all of last year.

All stats courtesy pro-football focus.

You know, if someone starts throwing things out there randomly - especially in question form - without any evidence whatsoever, it raises red flags. It's true in the business world, in academia, in legal realm.... it should be a cause for concern on here, too.

There is a reason why I compared Bigby's stats to other Free Safties - to show that compared to those who are supposedly better in coverage, Bigby still stacks up favorably.

He has his shortcomings, but there is talent there that can be worked with. I remember reading a post a couple of days back that said something to the effect of "get a pass-rush going, and Bigby will look like gold again"... I agree.

We certainly need to sure up the depth at the position, though.

"dhazer" wrote:



AADP - +1
I love stats. Thanks.

Never understood the unappreciation for Bigby. He's a decent Safety. I didn't think he was our problem last year in pass coverage.

"dhazer" wrote:



I said that before in the "1 pick away from the SB" thread.

If you can add a good pass rusher to complement Matthews, this defense will look so much better. When he had that great 2007 year, we had a defensive line featuring Kampman - Pickett - Williams - Jenkins as the starting line-up and a pass rushing specialist team with Kampman - Williams - Jenkins - KGB on obvious passing downs. When you can field a unit like that, life will become a lot easier for your secondary.

Look no further than the 2007 champion New York Giants. That secondary was far from star studded. They had just one good CB in Webster and some pretty average safety play throughout that play-off run. Thing is, they had a D-line featuring Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora and Mathias Kiwanuka as pass rushing specialists.

Bigby will make more plays when QBs are forced to get it out soon, lead their receivers into danger and just throw ill advised balls down the field.

That said, I don't think that he's one of the better cover safeties in the league. I like the stats, but for every time that the safety is totally out of position, the CB gets on catch given up on his record. The safety usually comes away scott free. He shouldn't be asked too cover deep too often or too long, because he will get burned.

And if you look at last season snaps alone, Bigby's injury problems don't look like that big of a deal, but when you see that he's started just 17 of the last 32 games and player in just 20, it looks a lot worse. And the time he missed wasn't mostly due to one big injury, it's always a big amount of small ones.
Pack93z
14 years ago
This goes back to a chicken and egg debate that Warhawk and I had after the Cards game.

In the Steelers and Cardinal games.. where they stretched the defense out.. it illustrated the back end communication issues that we have.. you could be LT on the other side of Matthews.. it wouldn't matter.. you have to have a leader a signal caller in the back end of this defense that can make the adjustments and give the gents in the box some time to get home.

I have watched the Cardinal game a number of times now.. they had guys open in 2 to 3 beats of the snap.. and wide open because of play design and poor presnap adjustments and placement..

While I am not opposed to adding talent at the OLB or a DE that can bust a double team on the pass rush.. I think we are just trying to mask a root issue on the back end of this defense.. and that is a true QB of the defense that can make some on field adjustments presnap and help the more green defenders get into the best possible scenario to stop the play.

We are also selling two 2nd year defenders in Jones short.. just because Matthews exploded onto the scene, it doesn't take away from the fact that Jones held is own.. and will only improve in year two.
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