Discussion Board
gbguy20
2019-12-11T21:53:32Z
I think it's a mix. Our defense would be much better if our offense/qb wasn't dogshit and unable to keep our D off the field. However as it stands, fact is that our offense sucks and it looks like our defense is nothing more than average. If our offense figures shit out, our D will look much improved.
go.pack.go.
2019-12-11T23:32:30Z
Originally Posted by: gbguy20 

I think it's a mix. Our defense would be much better if our offense/qb wasn't dogshit and unable to keep our D off the field. However as it stands, fact is that our offense sucks and it looks like our defense is nothing more than average. If our offense figures shit out, our D will look much improved.



If you think our QB is dogshit, go back and watch the 2017 season when he was hurt. You will see how good our offense is without that dogshit QB of ours.
Cheesey
2019-12-12T00:49:12Z
Wow....AR is “dogs#%t????
I’ll be there are at LEAST 25 teams that WISH they had THAT “dogs)@t to step in!

I don’t look forward to the day when Rodgers rides off into the sunset.
Who knows how many decades will go by until we get another “lousy” QB like Rodgers.
Zero2Cool
2019-12-12T00:49:28Z
Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 

If you think our QB is dogshit, go back and watch the 2017 season when he was hurt. You will see how good our offense is without that dogshit QB of ours.



I wouldn't say Aaron Rodgers is dogshit, but I can see how some would perceive him to be playing like dogshit. I can't say I'd agree fully with that assessment. But, the problem with saying to look at 2017's offense is that it doesn't seem to be producing much worse than what we are now.
gbguy20
2019-12-12T01:01:01Z
Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 

If you think our QB is dogshit, go back and watch the 2017 season when he was hurt. You will see how good our offense is without that dogshit QB of ours.



How about we compare how our QB played until 2014 to how he has played since? The comparison makes the current version look like dogshit.
Cheesey
2019-12-12T01:34:36Z
Yes, he was incredible in the past.
Now he’s just way above average.
So to compare, you see why we have been spoiled.
Again, I’m in no hurry to see the guy that will replace him.
Look at how many teams have gone through QB after QB, hoping to get someone decent, only to end up with garbage.
How many QBs have the Bears and Vikings and Lions gone through in the last 30 years?
Spoiled.....that’s what we are.
The young guys here have no idea what it feels like to go through over 20 years of losing, where if we beat the Bears ONCE, we felt like the season was a success. I’m not looking forward to going back to that scenario.
Nonstopdrivel
2019-12-12T03:59:51Z
In what categories is he "way above average"? I think a lot of fans are stuck in the past when it comes to evaluating Aaron Rodgers. So much of what he used to do that set him apart just isn't that innovative or usual anymore. The NFL has caught up to him and in many ways surpassed him. Right now Rodgers might be a 70th-percentile quarterback, but on his bad days, he's well under a 60th-percentile quarterback, and he's trending down. Unless he's willing to make a conscious business decision to play within the system, adapt to the personnel he has, and most importantly, not take the unnecessary hits, he doesn't stand a chance of playing at a high level as long as Tom Brady has.
Zero2Cool
2019-12-12T17:20:31Z
Tossed these messages in its own topic.


Edit, since I created the title of the topic, I will answer it. Yes, he has declined. I mean, he is 36 years old. He's not going to get better. I do believe he can flip on the switch of being better than what he is. I believe this to be true because while we didn't have Davante Adams, he did a lot of what I want to see from him.
gbguy20
2019-12-12T20:57:11Z
He declined 5 years ago. I don't think it is an age thing or a physical thing. I believe it is a complete mental thing that can be fixed. If a coach would just take a hard line on him and force him to fix it he could. Make him watch 2011 and compare his fundamentals/footwork then vs now. Compare his decision making then vs now. MLF said this off season that he was going to watch Rodgers film in 2011 and Rodgers film of the past couple of years. Nothing has changed so either MLF is not the guy or it's just too early yet, maybe he needs more time to fix Rodgers.
go.pack.go.
2019-12-12T23:12:59Z
Originally Posted by: gbguy20 

He declined 5 years ago. I don't think it is an age thing or a physical thing. I believe it is a complete mental thing that can be fixed. If a coach would just take a hard line on him and force him to fix it he could. Make him watch 2011 and compare his fundamentals/footwork then vs now. Compare his decision making then vs now. MLF said this off season that he was going to watch Rodgers film in 2011 and Rodgers film of the past couple of years. Nothing has changed so either MLF is not the guy or it's just too early yet, maybe he needs more time to fix Rodgers.



A big thing that you and many others are missing is that our receivers suck ass. And they have sucked ass for a while now. For whatever reason, management seems to think using late round/undrafted receivers is a great idea.
gbguy20
2019-12-12T23:40:19Z
Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 

A big thing that you and many others are missing is that our receivers suck ass. And they have sucked ass for a while now. For whatever reason, management seems to think using late round/undrafted receivers is a great idea.



I don't buy this argument. Our ass sucking receivers are getting open all over the field and being ignored/missed. Granted, they are terrible at reacting when "the play breaks down" (rodgers reverts to backyard football) but they shouldn't be asked to do that nearly as often as they are anyway.
Zero2Cool
2019-12-12T23:50:14Z
Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 

A big thing that you and many others are missing is that our receivers suck ass. And they have sucked ass for a while now. For whatever reason, management seems to think using late round/undrafted receivers is a great idea.



I used to think this until our WR's went elsewhere and fizzled out of existence. I'm not saying they are world beaters, but there is a difference in how Aaron Rodgers is playing. He is not nearly as decisive as he once was. I am not bashing Rodgers, I am not hating him, but I won't be naive to what is obvious to the eye. I think he used to feel immortal and the injuries have made him realize he's not Superman. I also point to his comments in press conferences that support this. Comments talking about the end of his career. This is natural, this is normal. We were freaking blessed beyond words to have him follow Favre. I do not want any other QB.

We don't have Kyle Rudolph, Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs kind of receiving threats, but we sure as hell have better than teams like Jaguars, Redskins, etc.

I don't want Rodgers to throw interceptions,. so don't be an idiot by twisting this around -- I think he needs to give the WR's more chances to MAKE PLAYS instead of shouldering it all on himself. We have guys who can go up and get the ball. They just need the opportunities.
go.pack.go.
2019-12-12T23:58:41Z
Originally Posted by: gbguy20 

I don't buy this argument. Our ass sucking receivers are getting open all over the field and being ignored/missed. Granted, they are terrible at reacting when "the play breaks down" (rodgers reverts to backyard football) but they shouldn't be asked to do that nearly as often as they are anyway.



I would love for you to show film of receivers consistently running wide open “all over the field”. You have obviously been watching a different team.

I’d be foolish to say that Rodgers is playing like he was when he was 30. But for people like you to blame all of the offense’s problems on Rodgers, that’s just idiotic.
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2019-12-13T00:09:03Z
Z, is there a way to "double thank" a post? If so, I would like to do it for go.pack.go's last post.

Yes, he has declined from "the best player ever at the position" to, "he is really friggin excellent and I wish we had some better wide outs"
Zero2Cool
2019-12-13T15:42:50Z
Originally Posted by: KRK 

Z, is there a way to "double thank" a post? If so, I would like to do it for go.pack.go's last post.

Yes, he has declined from "the best player ever at the position" to, "he is really friggin excellent and I wish we had some better wide outs"



Maybe he can go back to throwing guys open instead of waiting for them to be open? Nah, let's ignore what we see other QB's doing and just blame the WR's. We have an OL that is giving him time. He needs his WR's to run routes that he can throw them open. If you question this, look at the games Davante Adams was out. Guess what happened? Yeah, exactly, he can do it. He'll flip that switch and like he's always done, he'll make average WR's look better than they are. He is that good.

The NFL's Next Gen Stats show the WR's are getting separation, and in fact, they are 1st in the NFL.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

And the OL is #1 in pass protection.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

Additionally, what I've been trying to say about not throwing into tight windows, well, there's a stat for that.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

This is why I think and believe Aaron Rodgers himself can flip a switch. The parts are there. The tools are there. And when it's needed, he's going to tear it up.
Porforis
2019-12-13T17:04:39Z
Zero2Cool
2019-12-13T17:40:22Z
Cheesey
2019-12-13T18:02:18Z
Does Rodgers not trust his current group of WRs?
I think he just needs to take more chances, and like was said already, throw guys open.
That’s the only way we will win going into the playoffs.
Porforis
2019-12-13T19:00:07Z
beast
2019-12-13T21:42:15Z
Yes Rodgers has absolutely declined!

Part of it might be a new system that he's still learning, but I think there is a systematic flaw that Rodgers bought I to way too much...

Part of MM's system was to keep the play alive as long as possible to find the big play down the field.... Rodgers mastered this and has made amazing things happen with it!

But while Rodgers is doing a great job keeping the play alive for the big play, he's not getting the ball out of his hands, even when there is an open guy short, as he's looking for the if play.

This allows teams to drop 7 into coverage as they know he's over protective of the ball, which will make him hold it even longer and give the 4 rushers longer time to get to him.


Also Rodgers vision just doesn't seem to be the same... guys are sometimes getting open and he just doesn't seem to see it (can't see the whole field all the time like we can with 22-film but I think he used to be much better at knowing where to look, with a lot of matchups options with a deep group of talented WRs, which he no longer has.
go.pack.go.
2019-12-13T22:56:50Z
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

If you question this, look at the games Davante Adams was out. Guess what happened? Yeah, exactly, he can do it.



The offense used Aaron Jones & Jamal Williams a hell of a lot more in the passing game while Adams was out. I think we need to get back to that. None of our other receivers really stepped up during that time frame, other than one good drive that Lazard had.
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