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gbguy20
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I think it's a mix. Our defense would be much better if our offense/qb wasn't dogshit and unable to keep our D off the field. However as it stands, fact is that our offense sucks and it looks like our defense is nothing more than average. If our offense figures shit out, our D will look much improved.
go.pack.go.
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 

I think it's a mix. Our defense would be much better if our offense/qb wasn't dogshit and unable to keep our D off the field. However as it stands, fact is that our offense sucks and it looks like our defense is nothing more than average. If our offense figures shit out, our D will look much improved.



If you think our QB is dogshit, go back and watch the 2017 season when he was hurt. You will see how good our offense is without that dogshit QB of ours.
Cheesey
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Wow....AR is “dogs#%t????
I’ll be there are at LEAST 25 teams that WISH they had THAT “dogs)@t to step in!

I don’t look forward to the day when Rodgers rides off into the sunset.
Who knows how many decades will go by until we get another “lousy” QB like Rodgers.
Zero2Cool
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Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 

If you think our QB is dogshit, go back and watch the 2017 season when he was hurt. You will see how good our offense is without that dogshit QB of ours.



I wouldn't say Aaron Rodgers is dogshit, but I can see how some would perceive him to be playing like dogshit. I can't say I'd agree fully with that assessment. But, the problem with saying to look at 2017's offense is that it doesn't seem to be producing much worse than what we are now.
gbguy20
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Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 

If you think our QB is dogshit, go back and watch the 2017 season when he was hurt. You will see how good our offense is without that dogshit QB of ours.



How about we compare how our QB played until 2014 to how he has played since? The comparison makes the current version look like dogshit.
Cheesey
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Yes, he was incredible in the past.
Now he’s just way above average.
So to compare, you see why we have been spoiled.
Again, I’m in no hurry to see the guy that will replace him.
Look at how many teams have gone through QB after QB, hoping to get someone decent, only to end up with garbage.
How many QBs have the Bears and Vikings and Lions gone through in the last 30 years?
Spoiled.....that’s what we are.
The young guys here have no idea what it feels like to go through over 20 years of losing, where if we beat the Bears ONCE, we felt like the season was a success. I’m not looking forward to going back to that scenario.
Nonstopdrivel
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In what categories is he "way above average"? I think a lot of fans are stuck in the past when it comes to evaluating Aaron Rodgers. So much of what he used to do that set him apart just isn't that innovative or usual anymore. The NFL has caught up to him and in many ways surpassed him. Right now Rodgers might be a 70th-percentile quarterback, but on his bad days, he's well under a 60th-percentile quarterback, and he's trending down. Unless he's willing to make a conscious business decision to play within the system, adapt to the personnel he has, and most importantly, not take the unnecessary hits, he doesn't stand a chance of playing at a high level as long as Tom Brady has.
Zero2Cool
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Tossed these messages in its own topic.


Edit, since I created the title of the topic, I will answer it. Yes, he has declined. I mean, he is 36 years old. He's not going to get better. I do believe he can flip on the switch of being better than what he is. I believe this to be true because while we didn't have Davante Adams, he did a lot of what I want to see from him.
gbguy20
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He declined 5 years ago. I don't think it is an age thing or a physical thing. I believe it is a complete mental thing that can be fixed. If a coach would just take a hard line on him and force him to fix it he could. Make him watch 2011 and compare his fundamentals/footwork then vs now. Compare his decision making then vs now. MLF said this off season that he was going to watch Rodgers film in 2011 and Rodgers film of the past couple of years. Nothing has changed so either MLF is not the guy or it's just too early yet, maybe he needs more time to fix Rodgers.
go.pack.go.
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 

He declined 5 years ago. I don't think it is an age thing or a physical thing. I believe it is a complete mental thing that can be fixed. If a coach would just take a hard line on him and force him to fix it he could. Make him watch 2011 and compare his fundamentals/footwork then vs now. Compare his decision making then vs now. MLF said this off season that he was going to watch Rodgers film in 2011 and Rodgers film of the past couple of years. Nothing has changed so either MLF is not the guy or it's just too early yet, maybe he needs more time to fix Rodgers.



A big thing that you and many others are missing is that our receivers suck ass. And they have sucked ass for a while now. For whatever reason, management seems to think using late round/undrafted receivers is a great idea.
gbguy20
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Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 

A big thing that you and many others are missing is that our receivers suck ass. And they have sucked ass for a while now. For whatever reason, management seems to think using late round/undrafted receivers is a great idea.



I don't buy this argument. Our ass sucking receivers are getting open all over the field and being ignored/missed. Granted, they are terrible at reacting when "the play breaks down" (rodgers reverts to backyard football) but they shouldn't be asked to do that nearly as often as they are anyway.
Zero2Cool
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Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 

A big thing that you and many others are missing is that our receivers suck ass. And they have sucked ass for a while now. For whatever reason, management seems to think using late round/undrafted receivers is a great idea.



I used to think this until our WR's went elsewhere and fizzled out of existence. I'm not saying they are world beaters, but there is a difference in how Aaron Rodgers is playing. He is not nearly as decisive as he once was. I am not bashing Rodgers, I am not hating him, but I won't be naive to what is obvious to the eye. I think he used to feel immortal and the injuries have made him realize he's not Superman. I also point to his comments in press conferences that support this. Comments talking about the end of his career. This is natural, this is normal. We were freaking blessed beyond words to have him follow Favre. I do not want any other QB.

We don't have Kyle Rudolph, Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs kind of receiving threats, but we sure as hell have better than teams like Jaguars, Redskins, etc.

I don't want Rodgers to throw interceptions,. so don't be an idiot by twisting this around -- I think he needs to give the WR's more chances to MAKE PLAYS instead of shouldering it all on himself. We have guys who can go up and get the ball. They just need the opportunities.
go.pack.go.
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 

I don't buy this argument. Our ass sucking receivers are getting open all over the field and being ignored/missed. Granted, they are terrible at reacting when "the play breaks down" (rodgers reverts to backyard football) but they shouldn't be asked to do that nearly as often as they are anyway.



I would love for you to show film of receivers consistently running wide open “all over the field”. You have obviously been watching a different team.

I’d be foolish to say that Rodgers is playing like he was when he was 30. But for people like you to blame all of the offense’s problems on Rodgers, that’s just idiotic.
KRK
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Z, is there a way to "double thank" a post? If so, I would like to do it for go.pack.go's last post.

Yes, he has declined from "the best player ever at the position" to, "he is really friggin excellent and I wish we had some better wide outs"
Zero2Cool
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Originally Posted by: KRK 

Z, is there a way to "double thank" a post? If so, I would like to do it for go.pack.go's last post.

Yes, he has declined from "the best player ever at the position" to, "he is really friggin excellent and I wish we had some better wide outs"



Maybe he can go back to throwing guys open instead of waiting for them to be open? Nah, let's ignore what we see other QB's doing and just blame the WR's. We have an OL that is giving him time. He needs his WR's to run routes that he can throw them open. If you question this, look at the games Davante Adams was out. Guess what happened? Yeah, exactly, he can do it. He'll flip that switch and like he's always done, he'll make average WR's look better than they are. He is that good.

The NFL's Next Gen Stats show the WR's are getting separation, and in fact, they are 1st in the NFL.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

And the OL is #1 in pass protection.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

Additionally, what I've been trying to say about not throwing into tight windows, well, there's a stat for that.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

This is why I think and believe Aaron Rodgers himself can flip a switch. The parts are there. The tools are there. And when it's needed, he's going to tear it up.
Porforis
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

I wouldn't say Aaron Rodgers is dogshit, but I can see how some would perceive him to be playing like dogshit. I can't say I'd agree fully with that assessment. But, the problem with saying to look at 2017's offense is that it doesn't seem to be producing much worse than what we are now.



We've already outscored 2017's offense (309 points vs 306 on offense in 2017), on pace to score 74 more points than 2017, on pace to have 487 more offensive yards. Going beyond that, we're on pace to turn the ball over 6 times this year versus 21 in 2017, Time of Possession (31:10 vs 28:36), and it's somewhat easy to see why the defense while it's had major problems, is on pace to give up 52 less points this year than 2017. And why we're on pace for 12-4 instead of 7-9.

Have we been GOOD on offense this year? No. Has Aaron Rodgers been consistent? No. Is this ANYTHING like 2017? Absolutely not.

Frankly, beyond a nigh-impossible thing to quantify such as "looking off", it's pretty hard to pass off most of the differences between Rodgers this year and in years where he's put up bigger numbers as anything more than predominately the result of actually sticking with the run for once, and actually having some success with it.

Go take a look at Rodgers career stats and point out where it's clear he's regressed significantly. http://www.nfl.com/playe...gers/2506363/careerstats 

He's had a few dud games a year for almost his entire career. Is he at his peak? Absolutely not. If he was halfway between his peak and where he is now, would the Packers be 11-2 or 12-1 right now instead of 10-3? Probably. Is Rodgers the first, second, third, or fourth thing I'm worried about with this team? Absolutely not.

This is a very average year for ARod apart from 2011.
Zero2Cool
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Originally Posted by: Porforis 

We've already outscored 2017's offense (309 points vs 306 on offense in 2017), on pace to score 74 more points than 2017, on pace to have 487 more offensive yards. Going beyond that, we're on pace to turn the ball over 6 times this year versus 21 in 2017, Time of Possession (31:10 vs 28:36), and it's somewhat easy to see why the defense while it's had major problems, is on pace to give up 52 less points this year than 2017. And why we're on pace for 12-4 instead of 7-9.

Have we been GOOD on offense this year? No. Has Aaron Rodgers been consistent? No. Is this ANYTHING like 2017? Absolutely not.

Frankly, beyond a nigh-impossible thing to quantify such as "looking off", it's pretty hard to pass off most of the differences between Rodgers this year and in years where he's put up bigger numbers as anything more than predominately the result of actually sticking with the run for once, and actually having some success with it.

Go take a look at Rodgers career stats and point out where it's clear he's regressed significantly. http://www.nfl.com/playe...gers/2506363/careerstats 

He's had a few dud games a year for almost his entire career. Is he at his peak? Absolutely not. If he was halfway between his peak and where he is now, would the Packers be 11-2 or 12-1 right now instead of 10-3? Probably. Is Rodgers the first, second, third, or fourth thing I'm worried about with this team? Absolutely not.

This is a very average year for ARod apart from 2011.



Exactly. We aren't really outproducing 2017 by all that much. Just as I said. To me, it doesn't seem like we're producing helluva lot better than 2017. I see the same struggles in 2019 that I saw in 2017 with the exception of less turn overs and more scoring from the rushing game.

We are better in 2019 offensively, but not by what I would expect with having a healthy Aaron Rodgers and potent running game. We have a defense that has two guys in double digits. We're getting more interceptions. Our offense is turning the ball over less. 2017 we had 22 takeaways and 25 giveaways. 2019 we have 20 takeaways and just 9 giveaways. I'm overs-simplifying things here, but consuming everything from turnovers, conversion percentages, HEALTH of the team -- it feels like we should be out performing 2017 scoring by more than barely 3 points a game.

I'm not saying our offense is trash, garbage, and needs a complete rebuild. I am saying we have the ability to do more with the opportunities. And I also am confident we will. 2017 and 2019 feel similar in some aspects, but in 2019 we are WINNING and I believe Aaron Rodgers is going to light up teams in the playoffs.

One major difference from 2017 and 2019 ... we have seen dominate running game, dominant passing game in 2019. We didn't see that at all in 2017. And that has me hopeful.
Cheesey
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Does Rodgers not trust his current group of WRs?
I think he just needs to take more chances, and like was said already, throw guys open.
That’s the only way we will win going into the playoffs.
Porforis
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Exactly. We aren't really outproducing 2017 by all that much. Just as I said. To me, it doesn't seem like we're producing helluva lot better than 2017. I see the same struggles in 2019 that I saw in 2017 with the exception of less turn overs and more scoring from the rushing game.



My point is that despite what might seem to be the case at a glace... We are producing a lot better than 2017, and not much different than an average post-2011 year. Here's 20 minutes of work in excel to better illustrate things.

 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

Are we underperforming? Yes. Do I think it's really different than what we've been seeing for basically all of Rodgers' career, especially when removing the outliers? Not measurably.
beast
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Yes Rodgers has absolutely declined!

Part of it might be a new system that he's still learning, but I think there is a systematic flaw that Rodgers bought I to way too much...

Part of MM's system was to keep the play alive as long as possible to find the big play down the field.... Rodgers mastered this and has made amazing things happen with it!

But while Rodgers is doing a great job keeping the play alive for the big play, he's not getting the ball out of his hands, even when there is an open guy short, as he's looking for the if play.

This allows teams to drop 7 into coverage as they know he's over protective of the ball, which will make him hold it even longer and give the 4 rushers longer time to get to him.


Also Rodgers vision just doesn't seem to be the same... guys are sometimes getting open and he just doesn't seem to see it (can't see the whole field all the time like we can with 22-film but I think he used to be much better at knowing where to look, with a lot of matchups options with a deep group of talented WRs, which he no longer has.
go.pack.go.
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

If you question this, look at the games Davante Adams was out. Guess what happened? Yeah, exactly, he can do it.



The offense used Aaron Jones & Jamal Williams a hell of a lot more in the passing game while Adams was out. I think we need to get back to that. None of our other receivers really stepped up during that time frame, other than one good drive that Lazard had.
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gbguy20 (17h) : sounds like they should have never been allowed to take off in the fist place too. and it took multiple mitakes by the pilot to allow this to happen
gbguy20 (17h) : yeah :(
Zero2Cool (21h) : Shit. Latest report I read sure sounds like they knew. Dammit.
TheKanataThrilla (27-Jan) : Looks like the Chargers will not be re-signing Rivers.
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gbguy20 (27-Jan) : it's being called mountains but you're right its more like hills by my definition
Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : The crash site looks like it's without mountains. Sure hope it was instant though.
gbguy20 (27-Jan) : hearing that I assume everyone died instantly and had no idea it was even coming.
gbguy20 (27-Jan) : flew into the mountain at 185mph at 1700 feet while struggling to navigate in the fog.
gbguy20 (27-Jan) : "heavy fog caused issues during flight" tmz
gbguy20 (27-Jan) : probably be a while before anything official
gbguy20 (27-Jan) : "locals heard engine sputtering before crash." it was also a very foggy morning.
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : Have they determined the cause of the crash yet?
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : helicopter crash that also claimed the lives of Kobe Bryant and his daughter Gianna.
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : @WhitecapsCCBL We are heartbroken and shocked to learn that our former head coach, John Altobelli along with his wife Keri and daughter Alyssa passed away this morning in the helicopter crash that als
Nonstopdrivel (26-Jan) : Helicopters don't glide like planes -- they plummet like rocks -- so it's possible it was all over before anyone but the pilot realized what was about to happen.
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : @brianstelter Sheriff says 9 people, not 5, died in today's helicopter crash in Calabasas. The helicopter belonged to Kobe Bryant.
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : And you are essentially helpless. It might have been a second, two minutes, either way, it's a pain that is unimaginable for me.
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : As a father, I can't imagine the feeling of knowing you and your daughter are about to die.
Nonstopdrivel (26-Jan) : Kind of a jarring note in the middle of an article.
Nonstopdrivel (26-Jan) : "The Times is offering coverage of Kobe Bryant’s death for free today. Please consider a subscription to support our journalism."
gbguy20 (26-Jan) : my favorite nba player ever. even better guy. this is horrible.
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : @wojespn Sources: Kobe Bryant was on his way to a travel basketball game with his daughter Gianna when the helicopter crashed. Those aboard the helicopter also included another player and parent.
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : Kobe Bryant has died.
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : btw, my comment was not inferring Rodgers was accurate this year, he wasn't, just stating the raw stat is misleading
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : Drew Brees is amazing. Over 74%!!
Zero2Cool (26-Jan) : such a misleading stat, especially when it factors people who didn't complete it 200 times lol
gbguy20 (26-Jan) : elite
Nonstopdrivel (26-Jan) : Rodgers finished 21st in completion percentage this year. Ouch.
gbguy20 (25-Jan) : i just said that
beast (25-Jan) : Panthers are expected to sign the Packers DB coach away according to PFT
gbguy20 (25-Jan) : hey hopefully his replacement can get some damn deelopment out of jaire and kevin king.
gbguy20 (25-Jan) : packers DB coach is leaving to join the carolina panthers coaching staff.
Zero2Cool (24-Jan) : @mattschneidman Gutekunst said Packers weighed adding an "explosive offensive player" at trade deadline but worthy options simply weren't there.
Zero2Cool (24-Jan) : @zachkruse2 Brian Gutekunst said the Packers have to "take a long look at inside linebacker" this offseason
Zero2Cool (24-Jan) : @TomSilverstein Gutekunst said he's from the Ron Wolf school of player acquisition and that means if there's a quarterback they like and think can be a starter in the league, they won't hesitate to ob
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : Vikings make Gary Kubiak offensive coordinator
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : I wouldn't mind Robbie Anderson
gbguy20 (23-Jan) : i want mike lafleur
gbguy20 (23-Jan) : yeah that seemed promising as well. i know much less about him.
beast (23-Jan) : I'm thinking we sign the Jets WR that we looked into trade for
gbguy20 (22-Jan) : peter bukowski says we should trade for Robert Woods. i like that idea.
gbguy20 (22-Jan) : on its face those numbers sound terrible. though i wonder what our situation comes out to
gbguy20 (22-Jan) : will be available in FA. lets get him.
gbguy20 (22-Jan) : the coeboys have 110 mil invested in 9 players next year. none of them are named dak, cooper or jones. add the 30+ expected for dak and it comes to 78% of the expected cap. im assuming cooper will ve
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Sad ... Mr. Peanut.
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