Zero2Cool
14 years ago

That is like say Clay Matthews isn't as good as Nick Collins because he has less interceptions. They play completely different positions.

Jenkins top priority to is occupy blockers and stuff the run. The facts that he is able to rack up sacks ON TOP of his other duties is what makes him elite.

You obviously have a different definition of elite than about everyone else out here. Comparing him to Reggie White? Really??? I'm not trying to be a dick, but that post was pretty lame.

I honestly cannot think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins. Maybe Aaron Smith of the Steelers, but I think even that is a stretch. I'm not saying Jenkins is the greatest all time (see Reggie), but I'm saying he's a good player that draws blockers away from Clay and our other guys. I'd like to see a stat on how many sacks Clay and Raji got when Cullen was on the field vs. off.

"millertime" wrote:



You're complete utter failure at comprehending the point of my mentioning those players is beyond hilarious, especially since you try to call me out for allegedly comparing Cullen Jenkins to Reggie White? Please, point out where I did that.

I can't help notice you didn't mention any of the other players I listed off, why is that?

You bring up Nick Collins and compare his interceptions to that of Clay Matthews. That's clever because DL and LB's are never ranked by their tackles and sacks, but rather their interception totals.

If it makes you feel better, I don't think Barry Sanders would be able to a single sack if here to line up in Cullen Jenkins shoes.;)
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nerdmann
14 years ago
Bruce Smith was a 3-4 DE. People don't realize that, because he had so many sacks. He was injured quite a bit too.
I don't think Jenkins is at the level of Smith, but he's not far from it. He's a great player, often injured, but has played through alot of that.
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Greg C.
14 years ago

Cullen Jenkin's talents are wasted in a 3-4 defense. Calling him a run stuffer degrades the man's abilities. He is best suited to play the power DE in a 4-3. I don't think we will sign him back. We will go with Greasy, Raji, and Green in base and in the nickel we will put Neal in with Raji to collapse the pocket.

Thank you Cullen for being a great Packer. I only hope he goes somewhere other than our divisions rivals.

"DakotaT" wrote:



If his talents are wasted in a 3-4 defense, how did he get seven sacks in 11 games? I don't think 3-4 DE is nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Jenkins wasn't thrilled about the switch to the 3-4, but he's done just fine and he is in position to get a big payday. His injuries are the only factor that could prevent him from getting a really huge contract.

I still think the odds are against him returning to Green Bay, though. I'm with you on that one.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
If it wasn't for the injuries, I'd be more enthused about Cullen Jenkins returning with a nice payday. His injuries are what worry me.
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Rockmolder
14 years ago

Bruce Smith was a 3-4 DE. People don't realize that, because he had so many sacks. He was injured quite a bit too.
I don't think Jenkins is at the level of Smith, but he's not far from it. He's a great player, often injured, but has played through alot of that.

"nerdmann" wrote:



A thing most people forget is that there's a difference between playing 3-4 DE and 3-4 DE.

You guys ought to remember the SB. When the Steelers went to passing formations or were in certain passing downs, we played with a pretty strange D-line.

Jenkins had quite a few plays where he played 5-technique. Both during that game and during the season. At that point, you're pretty much playing the same position as a 4-3 DE.

It happens so often that the only thing that differenciates the 3-4 from a 4-3 is that that single OLB is standing instead of putting his hand on the ground, but the responsibilities and tasks are exactly the same.

And, of course, the defensive cordinator matters, as well.

Bruce Smith had some great years under Wade Phillips. I reckon that Mario Williams will have the same. The guy is an amazing physical specimen. That quickness and pass rushing skill at 6'6, 295 is absolutely amazing. If he'll get some help, he'll be putting up some great numbers.
millertime
14 years ago

That is like say Clay Matthews isn't as good as Nick Collins because he has less interceptions. They play completely different positions.

Jenkins top priority to is occupy blockers and stuff the run. The facts that he is able to rack up sacks ON TOP of his other duties is what makes him elite.

You obviously have a different definition of elite than about everyone else out here. Comparing him to Reggie White? Really??? I'm not trying to be a dick, but that post was pretty lame.

I honestly cannot think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins. Maybe Aaron Smith of the Steelers, but I think even that is a stretch. I'm not saying Jenkins is the greatest all time (see Reggie), but I'm saying he's a good player that draws blockers away from Clay and our other guys. I'd like to see a stat on how many sacks Clay and Raji got when Cullen was on the field vs. off.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



You're complete utter failure at comprehending the point of my mentioning those players is beyond hilarious, especially since you try to call me out for allegedly comparing Cullen Jenkins to Reggie White? Please, point out where I did that.

I can't help notice you didn't mention any of the other players I listed off, why is that?

You bring up Nick Collins and compare his interceptions to that of Clay Matthews. That's clever because DL and LB's are never ranked by their tackles and sacks, but rather their interception totals.

If it makes you feel better, I don't think Barry Sanders would be able to a single sack if here to line up in Cullen Jenkins shoes.;)

"millertime" wrote:



All I'm saying is that we have different definitions of the word "elite." I understand what you said but I don't agree with you. ; )

You can't rank players solely on stats anyways, especially defensive linemen in a 3-4. All I'm saying is that Cullen Jenkins impact is far greater than his stat line which, as everyone else has mentioned, is still pretty damn impressive. Can you really name one 3-4 DE better than him???

Anyways...

If there ever was a year for Ted to let Cullen walk, this may be the year. The draft is LOADED with talented defensive linemen and there is a very good chance that a solid one will be waiting for us at 32. And with the lockout pressing on, it's not like Ted could resign him right now even if Jenkins wanted to return.
zombieslayer
14 years ago



That is like say Clay Matthews isn't as good as Nick Collins because he has less interceptions. They play completely different positions.

Jenkins top priority to is occupy blockers and stuff the run. The facts that he is able to rack up sacks ON TOP of his other duties is what makes him elite.

You obviously have a different definition of elite than about everyone else out here. Comparing him to Reggie White? Really??? I'm not trying to be a dick, but that post was pretty lame.

I honestly cannot think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins. Maybe Aaron Smith of the Steelers, but I think even that is a stretch. I'm not saying Jenkins is the greatest all time (see Reggie), but I'm saying he's a good player that draws blockers away from Clay and our other guys. I'd like to see a stat on how many sacks Clay and Raji got when Cullen was on the field vs. off.

"millertime" wrote:



You got awarded an applause point.

I think the majority of us accept the word "elite" as top class in by position. So in any given year, there may be 7 elite QBs, 3 elite RBs, 8 elite WRs, 2 elite TEs, 20 elite OL, etc. I can't think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins either, and another bonus point for Jenkins is he can play DT as well if he had to.

I would love to see that stat of how many sacks CM3 and Raji get when Jenkins is on the field as well.

I'll tell you what. I bet if you interviewed all the coaches who played against us in those 11 games that Jenkins played, they'd probably all say the same thing - he was either the best or the 2nd best 3-4 DE they encountered that year. That would make him elite.
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millertime
14 years ago



That is like say Clay Matthews isn't as good as Nick Collins because he has less interceptions. They play completely different positions.

Jenkins top priority to is occupy blockers and stuff the run. The facts that he is able to rack up sacks ON TOP of his other duties is what makes him elite.

You obviously have a different definition of elite than about everyone else out here. Comparing him to Reggie White? Really??? I'm not trying to be a dick, but that post was pretty lame.

I honestly cannot think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins. Maybe Aaron Smith of the Steelers, but I think even that is a stretch. I'm not saying Jenkins is the greatest all time (see Reggie), but I'm saying he's a good player that draws blockers away from Clay and our other guys. I'd like to see a stat on how many sacks Clay and Raji got when Cullen was on the field vs. off.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



You got awarded an applause point.

I think the majority of us accept the word "elite" as top class in by position. So in any given year, there may be 7 elite QBs, 3 elite RBs, 8 elite WRs, 2 elite TEs, 20 elite OL, etc. I can't think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins either, and another bonus point for Jenkins is he can play DT as well if he had to.

I would love to see that stat of how many sacks CM3 and Raji get when Jenkins is on the field as well.

I'll tell you what. I bet if you interviewed all the coaches who played against us in those 11 games that Jenkins played, they'd probably all say the same thing - he was either the best or the 2nd best 3-4 DE they encountered that year. That would make him elite.

"millertime" wrote:



He was a great 4-3 DT and even a great 4-3 DE. He's just a hell of a player. I think a lot of teams know that and will drive his cost up.
porky88
14 years ago
It kind of depends on how you label players.

If Reggie White is in the elite class, Cullen Jenkins is not elite.

He is, however, a blue chip player. In my view, blue chip players are hard to find. We are talking about production, value, and versatility. I wouldn't call him one of the top five DEs in the game. I would consider him one of the top five 3-4 DEs in the game. I'd also put him as among the most scheme versatile players playing, so he definitely fits my criteria of a blue chip player.

Personally, I think losing him hurts. Ultimately, regaining the IR players is going to overcome any losses the Pack take via free agency. Thats with Cullen Jenkins or no Cullen Jenkins. It also says something about the current state of the Packers.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
What! Stats don't tell the whole story? Gosh, I never said that a few hundred times or anything. :sarcasm:

All I'm saying is that we have different definitions of the word "elite." I understand what you said but I don't agree with you. ; )

"millertime" wrote:



You said a lot more, in fact put several words in my mouth and failed to clear it up, but then again when you have others mindlessly applauding that piss poor tactic of debating, why would you take the time to make things right?

I listed off players whom I felt were elite. I did not compare Cullen Jenkins to any of them. I've said time and time again stats don't tell the whole story.

What I had challenged was that Cullen Jenkins is an elite player in the NFL. I just don't think he is and I don't feel there's any reason to call my opinion lame because you didn't understand what I was saying.

This whole name me players who are better ... then we narrow it down to only 3 - 4 DE's ... c'mon ... if you have to get that specific do you really have an argument?

I'm a good sport so I'll play along. I'm completely ignorant on what teams even run a 3 - 4 defense. Does that mean I must consider Cullen Jenkins an elite DE?

I think I under valued Cullen Jenkins and that's something I do with every Packer because I try to view them from outside in to avoid being bias. I think Clay, Cullen and B.J. are important to the success of the Packers defensive front seven and each benefit from one another. I'd also say B.J. and Cullen benefit from Clay more than anything else.

It'd be awesome to have Cullen Jenkins back as a Packer because as I've said countless times, he helps the Packers outside of the numbers he puts up. Once again, I'll say this too, I'm worried about his injuries. He's only 30, which after thinking about it some, don't feel is old for a DE.

In my opinion the closest players the Packers have to being elite would be Aaron Rodgers, Clay Matthews and Charles Woodson.
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