To rebuild, or not to rebuild· Page 2

dfosterf
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#11

If this defense cannot stop 5 yards per carry, all the rest is complete bullshit.

beast
Select Member

2 years ago

#12

If this defense cannot stop 5 yards per carry, all the rest is complete bullshit.

Originally Posted by: dfosterf

I feel like that's off topic (just mentioning because it's Zero2Cool's post and he likes staying on topic) but it's also extremely true.

I also think we might be seeing something different and more aggressive upfront with so many power Edge and power 3-4 DE that might not fit the normal 4-3 DE nor 4-3 DT roles... maybe Packers planning on staying in the 3-4 formation but actually running some sort of 5-2? Just speculation on my part.

But back on topic, there seems to be four groups of terms.of rebuilding (or whatever you want to call this)

Going from lowest to highest

1) Tanking - when you're selling off players and trying to get the best draft pick possible, like the Bears purposely sold all their good pieces off trying to get the #1 draft pick. But at minimum, trying really hard to lose and get a top 3 to top 5 Draft pick.

2) Rebuilding or Total rebuild like the Lions have done, where they basic limts start cultures all over, but aren't necessarily trying to ever get a top 5 Draft pick for it.

3) The one that the Packers are currently in and were debating over what to call it, but my point is almost all of us seem to agree the Packers are in this one, we just disagree on the proper terminology of this one. But the Packers tore down the offense weapons and building them back up again, also building back up the DL and have attempted to rebuild the OL in pass years and Gute is hoping they finally develop this year.

4) Reloading - like the Chiefs keep doing with their receiving core, usually this is done with high draft picks and FAs.

Cheesey
Preferred Member

2 years ago

#13

If you are starting a new QB, and have to add several new guys both on offense and defense, to me that would be considered a rebuild.
But every year you have to "rebuild" to a certain extent. You lose guys to old age, free agency and injury. And if the guys you lose are "star" players, those are hard to replace and might take several seasons (if even then) to replace.
Look at how many teams have been searching for a great starting QB, only to still be searching. We have been lucky to have 2 over the last 30 years .
We hope that LOVE will be the next great GB QB . But no one knows for sure.

nerdmann
Premier Member

2 years ago

#14

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

Keeping the same system tho, carring over OL and RBs.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

nerdmann
Premier Member

2 years ago

#15

If this defense cannot stop 5 yards per carry, all the rest is complete bullshit.

Originally Posted by: dfosterf

This defense has held up for than it has let us down. But yes, gotta shore that up..

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

beast
Select Member

2 years ago

#16

This defense has held up for than it has let us down. But yes, gotta shore that up..

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

Yes, if you believe the lies that you hear... and are trying to presented as factual.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

2 years ago

#17

Rebuilding is never any teams preferred choice... it's only done because something has to be reset, and you just brought up many of the items that needed to be reset, QB, WR, and Salary Cap.

Originally Posted by: beast

I kind of disagree here. I think teams like Seahawks and Rams elected to "rebuild", but maybe to your point though, the teams were kind of left with no choice? Both shipped off or cut multiple veterans to free up salary cap space or pick up draft picks. The Packers had no choice to but to go younger at WR, even though they did sign a free agent back in 2022 who flopped out.

And you talk about me not being able to accept other people viewpoints... no one is stretching a word, they just have a different believe of the words meaning and usage.

You asked, we answered, you don't our answers and you criticize them... be overly anal about the unimportant semantics if you wish... but the reality is that they've clearly attempted to rebuild the offense OL depth over past years and the WRs and TEs the last two years.

Originally Posted by: beast

I don't what your answers? I'm happy to read the answers, but I don't have to agree with them. I'm using the definitions provided as I understand them and it feels like even though the definition is laid, there's some square peg into round hole action going on. What's your problem with my view on that? What did I do wrong now holier than thou, sir? It seems every time I post, you gotta come at me for something and just make me not want to even visit the website.

The more definitions of "rebuild" the more I'm convinced the Packers are not rebuilding. They do not have a new front office, they do not have a new coaching staff, they are starting their hand picked QB who sat on the bench for three years, they didn't cut/trade a bunch of veterans and it just doesn't feel like a rebuild --- BASED ON THE DEFINITIONS PROVIDED. But what do we call what they're doing if it's not a rebuild? How is what the Packers are doing different than anything they've done in the past (minus the QB spot)? So is every team rebuilding?

If they traded guys like David Bakhtiari, Preston Smith and Rashan Gary for some draft picks, I could buy the "rebuild" narrative even though they didn't replace front office/ coaching staff. It's weird, TO ME (this is MY opinion, no one get butt cheese on me here) it feels the Seahawks rebuild in 2022, but the Packers in 2023 just kind of feels same ole same ole with the exception of the QB. 🤷‍♂️

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

2 years ago

#18

Yeah, I have to agree with beast here. What we're currently seeing I would classify as a rebuild. Not tanking to get the #1 pick or whatever. But the signs of a rebuild are pretty clear to me:
1. Trading the best two players on the team the past two years for draft capital
2. Not signing significant free agents this year and letting a few significant ones go the past couple of years - freeing up cap space for future years and absorbing the cap hit they've been putting off with contract restructures. This year it's quite clear that they're trying to clear $ from the books and get some comp picks in 2024.
3. Completely revamping the WR and TE positions

Sure, there isn't a new GM and coaching staff in place, but I don't think that is required for a rebuild. If anything, I think the Packers intended to start the rebuild sooner - new coaching staff in 2019, new QB in 2021 or so, but then Rodgers was playing too well for them to fully commit to the transition plan. Two straight MVP seasons will do that.

But yeah, I don't think you can really "retool" after a losing season where you miss the playoffs. If that's the case the Bears and Lions are "retooling" practically every year.

All that said, I don't think a rebuild means the Packers necessarily will be bad this year. If they have done this well, they could be competitive this year. This largely depends on how brightly Jordan Love shines when the lights turn on.

I also think the Packers have enough core players that are young (Love, Watson, Gary, Runyan, Tom, Dillion, Walker) or in their prime (Jenkins, Clark, Alexander, Douglas, Campbell) that they can rebuild without completely starting over.

Originally Posted by: earthquake

You say they are rebuilding, but yet have a core. I think, for me, if you're rebuilding, you don't have a core and thus are rebuilding core. You listed off more solid players that I just feel a team that is rebuilding would not have.

⚠ ⚠ ⚠ I'm gonna go super pedantic and semantic here. ⚠ ⚠ ⚠
The definition of rebuilding is to build something again after it has been destroyed. Being the pedantic person I am, I don't think the Packers were destroyed. I think they're just doing some remodeling and partaking in the constant evolution of an NFL roster. 🤷‍♂️

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

2 years ago

#19

I feel like that's off topic (just mentioning because it's Zero2Cool's post and he likes staying on topic) but it's also extremely true.

Originally Posted by: beast

Haha, thanks! This crappy software still allows us to split posts into new topic though!

beast
Select Member

2 years ago

#20

The more definitions of "rebuild" the more I'm convinced the Packers are not rebuilding. They do not have a new front office, they do not have a new coaching staff, they are starting their hand picked QB who sat on the bench for three years, they didn't cut/trade a bunch of veterans and it just doesn't feel like a rebuild --- BASED ON THE DEFINITIONS PROVIDED.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

1) That's based on YOUR definition provided, the entire point is that different people can have different definitions or uses of the same exact word.

2) You claim the Seahawks and Rams elected to "rebuild"... and yet they have the same Front Office, the Same coaches (other than Rams changed up some coaches but they have been doing that just about every single year). So you claim the Packers can't be rebuilding because they don't meet your definition, then how can you claim the Rams and Seahawks are, when they also aren't meeting your definition? Why are other teams getting an exemption from the definition? You say Packers are starting the QB that sat on their bench for 3 years... and so are the Seahawks....

3) Packers didn't cut or trade a whole bunch of FAs, because they didn't have to, they were mostly FAs... and you can't cut nor trade a FA. Interesting how they didn't have to cut them, but they were all naturally FAs at the same exact time, almost like it was planned ahead of time. And yet, you're using that as proof that it wasn't planned. Maybe it was planned so well, you just didn't notice.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Exactly, they didn't want to rebuild, but the results of their aggressive actions in previous years (aggressive to salary cap) gave them no other good choices, just like the Packers. And I believe Gute has stated a couple years ago, going cap heavy now means they have to make it up in the future, which is rebuilding of the cap space. So I think all these teams elected to go for Super Bowls, and after a number of years, knew they had to stop and rebuild the cap space.

But what do we call what they're doing if it's not a rebuild? How is what the Packers are doing different than anything they've done in the past (minus the QB spot)? So is every team rebuilding?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

No, lots of teams are trying to improve their team and get into the playoffs now, whole Packers are trying to build a new offensive foundation, with other than OL, new everything on offense, and build the chemistry of the offense unit.

And I don't know this, but I believe we'll see a shift in offensive scheme, as the Packers scheme has been described as a hybrid of what LaFleaur likes and what Rodgers liked and kept from the McCarthy era... and now it'll probably be all LaFleaur wide zone scheme. And I believe they talked about the coaches missing the combine to work on scheme. Also with the Packers bringing in some pass rushing 3-4 DEs, I wonder if the defensive scheme might be changing a bit too.

If they traded guys like David Bakhtiari, Preston Smith and Rashan Gary for some draft picks, I could buy the "rebuild" narrative even though they didn't replace front office/ coaching staff. It's weird, TO ME (this is MY opinion, no one get butt cheese on me here) it feels the Seahawks rebuild in 2022, but the Packers in 2023 just kind of feels same ole same ole with the exception of the QB. 🤷‍♂️

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

They traded Rodgers and Adams, while Rams openly said Stafford, Cooper and Donald were not going to be traded no matter the offer.

And like I said with the 4 stages, I think we are all agreeing the Packers are in stage 3, we just disagree on what to call the stage 3.

I thought your phrase of "remodeling" fit well, but I don't hear that phrase in the normal football talk.

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beast (8-Aug) : But the Return from IR designations had to be applied by the 53 man cutdown.

beast (8-Aug) : It's a new rule, so it's not clear, but my understanding was that they could be IR'd at any time

Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : *had to be IRed at 53

Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : beast, I thought the designate return from IR players had to be IR at cutdowns to 53, not before

beast (8-Aug) : It's a brand new rule, either last season or this season, prior, all pre-season IRs were done for the season

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