Pack93z
16 years ago

I love the point you made that Harrell doesn't have to be good -- he just has to be there. One of the strengths of our '07 defense was that our line remained fresh because it was continually being rotated. As long as Harrell can spell the rest of the line and keep them fresh, we'll see a dramatic improvement in the line's performance.

I still want to see Harrell on a short leash, however. I think it will be a strategic mistake to roll into the season with him on the PUP. If he can't start on Day 1, I think he needs to go. The cap hit will be minimal and it will be time to give his successor a chance to step up and succeed.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Nailed it on both accounts.. it was a curious mistake last year to reduce the counts on the defensive line rotation with the final 53.. to this day still don't see the logic after the success (loose term) with the rotation in 07.

Williams was going so that isn't the issue.. it is the Muir's of the world that I found oddly curious that where sent packing.. players that flashed a little and gave the front line players a breather..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
longtimefan
16 years ago

Is it being negative or looking for the logic behind the optimism?

I don't think Dom Capers can turn this defense around because I think their is a talent problem. I worry about our aging corners. Harris's decline has started and C-Wood is bound to slow down sometime. I don't know what Raji will bring to the table as a rookie or how Kampman will adjust. Will Hawk break out? Will Barnett be at 100% and improve on his past mistakes?

Their are lots of ????? on Defense. If you put a tarp over a leaky roof does it solve the problem or just make it look like you made an attempt to do so. Sanders was a god to most in 07 and now he's the fall guy. I think the talent, and lack of depth is the problem.

"pack93z" wrote:




Dom has proven he can get the D to turn around in his 1st season with a team


click me 


When Capers took over the 25th-ranked Jaguars defense in 1999, the Jaguars moved up 21 spots in the rankings and led the league in scoring defense.

And when he changed the Dolphins to a 3-4 in 2006, they went from 18th to fourth in the defensive rankings.

"longtimefan" wrote:

"dd80forever" wrote:



To expand upon it.. Thread about Kampman into said defense... 

I am so jacked about this defenses "potential" I could suit up today and just hit something.. lol.. then pay for it for a couple of days. ;)



After reading this I wonder if D80 still is not optimistic for the D in 09?
dd80forever
16 years ago

Is it being negative or looking for the logic behind the optimism?

I don't think Dom Capers can turn this defense around because I think their is a talent problem. I worry about our aging corners. Harris's decline has started and C-Wood is bound to slow down sometime. I don't know what Raji will bring to the table as a rookie or how Kampman will adjust. Will Hawk break out? Will Barnett be at 100% and improve on his past mistakes?

Their are lots of ????? on Defense. If you put a tarp over a leaky roof does it solve the problem or just make it look like you made an attempt to do so. Sanders was a god to most in 07 and now he's the fall guy. I think the talent, and lack of depth is the problem.

"longtimefan" wrote:




Dom has proven he can get the D to turn around in his 1st season with a team


click me 


When Capers took over the 25th-ranked Jaguars defense in 1999, the Jaguars moved up 21 spots in the rankings and led the league in scoring defense.

And when he changed the Dolphins to a 3-4 in 2006, they went from 18th to fourth in the defensive rankings.

"pack93z" wrote:

"longtimefan" wrote:



To expand upon it.. Thread about Kampman into said defense... 

I am so jacked about this defenses "potential" I could suit up today and just hit something.. lol.. then pay for it for a couple of days. ;)

"dd80forever" wrote:



After reading this I wonder if D80 still is not optimistic for the D in 09?




Well, you wondered so don't kill me for what I'm going to answer.

I think Capers upgrades the staff as a whole. I think basically Teddy hired another "head coach" because the sweathog MM isn't capable on his own. I think he will give MM some suggestions and work on much more than the defense alone. In this case, it was a good move.

As far as a Def. Coord. I am not sold. Let's not forget Dom was the Def. Coord in Miami when they went 1-15. The Defense wasn't really void of talent, yet it ranked 24th. After he left it jumped up to 15th. We'll see how it goes here.

Ted is trying, I will give him that but it's eerily similar to Donatell getting the axe before it fell on Sherman.

We'll see, I personally don't think the scheme or the coaching is the problem. I think it's a overestimation of talent.
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DakotaT
16 years ago
DD80, you have to be kidding me. Don't compare this defense to those delapitated Sherman defenses, please I beg you. I can't take it when you do that. Last years D missed Barnett and Jenkins, because there weren't adequate replacements. Bishop wasn't ready and D-line depth was absolutely attrocious. You can blame Teddy, I don't care.

The coaches with no imagination have been replaced, and injured players are coming back. There is room for optimism, no matter how hard that is for your and Dhazr.
UserPostedImage
dd80forever
16 years ago

DD80, you have to be kidding me. Don't compare this defense to those delapitated Sherman defenses, please I beg you. I can't take it when you do that. Last years D missed Barnett and Jenkins, because there weren't adequate replacements. Bishop wasn't ready and D-line depth was absolutely attrocious. You can blame Teddy, I don't care.

The coaches with no imagination have been replaced, and injured players are coming back. There is room for optimism, no matter how hard that is for your and Dhazr.

"DakotaT" wrote:



I don't think I was comparing the talent levels as much as Sanders being a scapegoat the same way Donatell was.

You basically said their was little depth last year, but you expected Sanders to pull a rabbit out of his hat with that "little talent".
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MassPackersFan
16 years ago
The only issue I have heard discussed in any detail/frequency is that Sanders' D was too predictable. There were other smaller issues that teams face every year, but that was the big one.

And yes, Donatell was a scapegoat. I couldn't believe that decision. It was borderline brain damaged. The OC was the person who had to go.

Well, in retrospect, the GM/HC and eventually the QB too. 😛
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
16 years ago

DD80, you have to be kidding me. Don't compare this defense to those delapitated Sherman defenses, please I beg you. I can't take it when you do that. Last years D missed Barnett and Jenkins, because there weren't adequate replacements. Bishop wasn't ready and D-line depth was absolutely attrocious. You can blame Teddy, I don't care.

The coaches with no imagination have been replaced, and injured players are coming back. There is room for optimism, no matter how hard that is for your and Dhazr.

"dd80forever" wrote:



I don't think I was comparing the talent levels as much as Sanders being a scapegoat the same way Donatell was.

You basically said their was little depth last year, but you expected Sanders to pull a rabbit out of his hat with that "little talent".

"DakotaT" wrote:




No I expected him to be fired because he didn't get the job done. Fair or not fair, this isn't the rec league. I had problems with Sanders long before last year's debacle. We were running Bates' defense without Bates.

I've wanted a quality Dcoordinator since Fritz Shurmer. You act like I have something personal against them and that just isn't the case. Bob Sanders was promoted to a level that exceeded his capabilities, and it showed with how he called a game.

I agree that Donatell was a scapegoat. Sherman should have bit the bullet on 4th and 26th, but unfortunately that's not how the business works.

Philadelphia is in mix every year because of Jimmy Johnson, not because Andy Reid is so spectacular. I want that defensive presence in GB, because this league has parity, but if you have good defense consistently, your chances of success are greater.
UserPostedImage
porky88
16 years ago

DD80, you have to be kidding me. Don't compare this defense to those delapitated Sherman defenses, please I beg you. I can't take it when you do that. Last years D missed Barnett and Jenkins, because there weren't adequate replacements. Bishop wasn't ready and D-line depth was absolutely attrocious. You can blame Teddy, I don't care.

The coaches with no imagination have been replaced, and injured players are coming back. There is room for optimism, no matter how hard that is for your and Dhazr.

"dd80forever" wrote:



I don't think I was comparing the talent levels as much as Sanders being a scapegoat the same way Donatell was.

You basically said their was little depth last year, but you expected Sanders to pull a rabbit out of his hat with that "little talent".

"DakotaT" wrote:



The defensive talent Donatell had to work with was far less than what Sanders had to work with.

That's also why Donatell was a better coach than Sanders and why he went to Atlanta and had some success.

I agree that Sanders is a scapegoat much like Donatell although not as much in that Donatell was fired for 4th and 26 which was ridiculous because Sherman made the call on that play anyways. None the less I see what your getting at.

Then again Dom Capers is head and shoulders a better coach than Bob Slowlik, Bob Sanders, or Ed Donatell.

However, little talent is not how I'd describe the Packers defense at all. Maybe if you take out four starters like last year then yeah I could see the problems, but not the starting 11.

There is talent especially in comparisons to the Sherman teams.
http://www.row12.com/ 
UserPostedImage
warhawk
16 years ago

DD80, you have to be kidding me. Don't compare this defense to those delapitated Sherman defenses, please I beg you. I can't take it when you do that. Last years D missed Barnett and Jenkins, because there weren't adequate replacements. Bishop wasn't ready and D-line depth was absolutely attrocious. You can blame Teddy, I don't care.

The coaches with no imagination have been replaced, and injured players are coming back. There is room for optimism, no matter how hard that is for your and Dhazr.

"dd80forever" wrote:



I don't think I was comparing the talent levels as much as Sanders being a scapegoat the same way Donatell was.

You basically said their was little depth last year, but you expected Sanders to pull a rabbit out of his hat with that "little talent".

"DakotaT" wrote:



There is a big difference between donatell and Sanders. Donetell was Sherman's goat for the 4th and 26.

Sanders D blew all year long and repeatedly choked late in games. When is there difference from making the right move to improve your team and when it's a scapegoat move anyhow?

One way you can tell is Donetell was on a plane like the next day getting hired by Atlanta and Sanders was immediately picked up by who again?

Same with Sherman. He went like 0-15 getting a HC job out of anybody in the NFL so was he some sort of scapegoat or was it the right move to get him out of GB?

Just like good players if your a good coach it won't take long to end up somewhere and when they don't it tells you all you need to know.
"The train is leaving the station."
dd80forever
16 years ago

DD80, you have to be kidding me. Don't compare this defense to those delapitated Sherman defenses, please I beg you. I can't take it when you do that. Last years D missed Barnett and Jenkins, because there weren't adequate replacements. Bishop wasn't ready and D-line depth was absolutely attrocious. You can blame Teddy, I don't care.

The coaches with no imagination have been replaced, and injured players are coming back. There is room for optimism, no matter how hard that is for your and Dhazr.

"warhawk" wrote:



I don't think I was comparing the talent levels as much as Sanders being a scapegoat the same way Donatell was.

You basically said their was little depth last year, but you expected Sanders to pull a rabbit out of his hat with that "little talent".

"dd80forever" wrote:



There is a big difference between donatell and Sanders. Donetell was Sherman's goat for the 4th and 26.

Sanders D blew all year long and repeatedly choked late in games. When is there difference from making the right move to improve your team and when it's a scapegoat move anyhow?

One way you can tell is Donetell was on a plane like the next day getting hired by Atlanta and Sanders was immediately picked up by who again?

Same with Sherman. He went like 0-15 getting a HC job out of anybody in the NFL so was he some sort of scapegoat or was it the right move to get him out of GB?

Just like good players if your a good coach it won't take long to end up somewhere and when they don't it tells you all you need to know.

"DakotaT" wrote:




Actually Sanders is in Buffalo as the D-Line coach and Donatell just got the boot from the Huskies.

AS far as Sherman, he moved on to Houston for 2 years after he left GB. It's similar to Capers who couldn't get a Head coaching gig either after his failures.
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