Zero2Cool
15 years ago
The word second is confusing. It can mean one, as in one second, or second as in a second pair of something, or second place as ... well it just confuses the hell out of me. How can it mean one or more than one with being the same word?
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IronMan
15 years ago
Ricky Bobby says, if you're not first, you're last.
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Words have no intrinsic meaning. Words mean whatever we decide they mean. If we decide the same combination of sounds can mean different things, that's what happens.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

Words have no intrinsic meaning. Words mean whatever we decide they mean. If we decide the same combination of sounds can mean different things, that's what happens.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

If words have no intrinsic meaning why have words at all?
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
If words had intrinsic meaning, words would be universal. We'd have no languages.

For example, the word "pickle" in English means a cucumber treated with vinegar, salt and spices to preserve it and make it taste like, well, a pickled cucumber. Why? Because at some time in the past, English-speaking people decided it did. By contrast, in German, "pickel," which sounds exactly the same," means "pimple." Why? Because some German-speaking people decided it did.

Does a red octagon instrinsically mean "Stop"? No, we decided it did. Does a white circle with a red band through the middle mean "Do not enter"? Nope -- we have chosen that as a convention. In the Middle East, that kind of sign means "Stop." Does a white dress with a veil intrinsically mean a bride? Maybe in America, but in China brides wear red dresses.

Symbols and conventions are chosen to make communication easier, so we don't have to relearn things over and over. Words are simply symbols. We choose their meaning to suit our own purposes, and they enable us to make greater progress than grunts and whistles would have.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

Words have no intrinsic meaning. Words mean whatever we decide they mean. If we decide the same combination of sounds can mean different things, that's what happens.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

If words have no intrinsic meaning why have words at all?

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Actually, we probably have words *because* they have no intrinsic meaning. Since a combination of letters is, by itself, just a combination of letters, we can assign meaning to it in a way or ways with much less confusion as to what we are talking about. That is, your problem with the word "second" can be the exception, rather than the rule.

When we on this list see a word like "Packers", for example, we don't have to every time think about "what is P-A-C-K-E-R-ness?" we immediately associate certain signs, certain meanings to that six letter combo. We don't have to think, we just "know" to think "green and gold", "God's team," "the team than any intelligent being cheers for" etc.

Sometimes, of course, those signs conflict, of course. Witness your example of "second." You often see really good writers, for example, get hamstrung by words in mid-sentence when, in attempting to use word #2 with some word #1, which they've probably done thousands of times before, their brain remembers an alternate meaning of word #1, and says to them, "What the fuck? These words don't go together. Hey, what does word #2 mean again."

You see, Zero, the problem here is that you are too smart. If you were a dumbfuck like the rest of us, instead of this very bright dude, you'd use the word "second" without batting an eye. 🙂
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

If words had intrinsic meaning, words would be universal. We'd have no languages.

For example, the word "pickle" in English means a cucumber treated with vinegar, salt and spices to preserve it and make it taste like, well, a pickled cucumber. Why? Because at some time in the past, English-speaking people decided it did. By contrast, in German, "pickel," which sounds exactly the same," means "pimple." Why? Because some German-speaking people decided it did.

Does a red octagon instrinsically mean "Stop"? No, we decided it did Does a white circle with a red band through the middle mean "Do not enter"? Nope -- we have chosen that as a convention. In the Middle East, that kind of sign means "Stop." Does a white dress with a veil intrinsically mean a bride? Maybe in America, but in China brides wear red dresses.

Symbols and conventions are chosen to make communication easier, so we don't have to relearn things over and over. Words are simply symbols. We choose their meaning to suit our own purposes, and they enable us to make greater progress than grunts and whistles would have.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Ah, this says it better than I did. Never mind.

+1 again.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Cheesey
15 years ago
What about words spelled different that sound the same?
"Meet" and "meat.
Or "sew" and "so".
"Sale", "sail"
Or words that SHOULD have the same sounds, like the word "bomb".
Yet if you take the word "tomb" it SHOULD sound like "tom" like in bomb. But it doesn't, it soulds like "toom".
So then shouldn't "bomb" sound like "boom?" Meaning the bomb already went off.
And "comb" should be "coom" or "tom".
Confusing? You bet!!!

How about tear and tear? The only way you know what they mean and how to pronounce them is if you know what context they are used in. Like "tear" a piece of paper, or a "tear" ran down her face.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

IDoes a white dress with a veil intrinsically mean a bride? Maybe in America, but in China brides wear red dresses.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Confucius say: White dress mean only time American woman wears garter. Other colors all mean pantyhose.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

What about words spelled different that sound the same?

"Cheesey" wrote:



Behold the joys of etymology. In most cases, those words originally had nothing to do with each other, but for a bunch of reasons, most of which make little to no sense, they gradually began to sound (and in some cases, even look) the same. A lot of the quirks of the English language have to do with the fact that English is a mongrel language, the bastard child of German and French. But all the more lovable for that.

If you ever wonder how words that look or sound alike are related to each other, look them up in a good dictionary that gives the origins (etymologies) of words. It's pretty interesting.
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