Zero2Cool
15 years ago
I wouldn't be upset if we cut him tomorrow morning at 8am CST. If we keep him, the positive side is he is only 23 years old and there may be some hope he'll grow up. I thought I read somewhere that he's been studying with Charles Woodson. If he's not, hopefully he starts and grows up.
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all_about_da_packers
15 years ago

The fact that he's set himself up in such a situation, given his past history, shows he has yet to mature in his decision making. It's the same reason Roethlisberger is suspended even though he's not yet found innocent or guilty. Personal conduct policy. You can't tell me he's been a model citizen in that regard.

"TheEngineer" wrote:




Trom does have a point, actually.

When you say given his "past history," do you know of when Underwood was accused of rape before this incident? See your comparison with Big Ben falls apart because Ben actually had a history of inappropriately conducting himself around women.

We know that Underwood missed meetings and was late during college. That's totally different than having a history of putting yourself in a position to be brought forth on chargers of sexual assault.

Was Underwood incredibly stupid in putting himself in such a situation? Yes.

Does he have prior experience of understanding how to conduct himself around people given his status as a member of the Packers? Um, no. What I'm trying to say is that Underwood's history does show us that he is not the most mature of men, which is expected given his age.


Yeah, he cheated on his wife and that's wrong. But in all honesty, the Packers are not going to cut players based solely on his personal life. What he did him and his wife will handle, but the Packers really shouldn't factor that in to the decision on whether or not to keep him. Unless, of course, the game of football starts awarding points for faithfulness to one's spouse. If we were to compile a list of all things we don't want players who represent our organization to do, and stick to using it, then it's far to say that at least 1/2 of our current roster would be gone.
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tromadz
15 years ago


Can we wait for the smoke to clear before we cut anybody? No? Too reasonable? Alright then.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



You've missed my point, trom.

It's not the fact that he's innocent or guilty of rape. The fact that he's set himself up in such a situation, given his past history, shows he has yet to mature in his decision making. It's the same reason Roethlisberger is suspended even though he's not yet found innocent or guilty. Personal conduct policy. You can't tell me he's been a model citizen in that regard.

"tromadz" wrote:



I just dont really dig the action you want to take.

What if there's a case(maybe this one, probably not, but it happens) where a girl or 2 conspire against a player to get money? The news breaks monday, we cut him wednesday, and find out friday the 2 girls were full of it?

"He should know better!" So a theoretical player can't socialize with women at all? They can't get physical or romantic with chicks at all? Gotta wait till they hang up the jersey first?

But it's sooo different here because he's a headcase (like at least 80% of all pro athletes) AND married (the first to cheat on his wife I'm sure).

There's a reason most of these cases get dismissed and the victims get laughed out of the courtroom(when it actually goes to court)

Waiting till the smoke is cleared is the way to go about it, despite the history.
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TheEngineer
15 years ago

The fact that he's set himself up in such a situation, given his past history, shows he has yet to mature in his decision making. It's the same reason Roethlisberger is suspended even though he's not yet found innocent or guilty. Personal conduct policy. You can't tell me he's been a model citizen in that regard.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:




Trom does have a point, actually.

When you say given his "past history," do you know of when Underwood was accused of rape before this incident? See your comparison with Big Ben falls apart because Ben actually had a history of inappropriately conducting himself around women.

We know that Underwood missed meetings and was late during college. That's totally different than having a history of putting yourself in a position to be brought forth on chargers of sexual assault.

Was Underwood incredibly stupid in putting himself in such a situation? Yes.

Does he have prior experience of understanding how to conduct himself around people given his status as a member of the Packers? Um, no. What I'm trying to say is that Underwood's history does show us that he is not the most mature of men, which is expected given his age.


Yeah, he cheated on his wife and that's wrong. But in all honesty, the Packers are not going to cut players based solely on his personal life. What he did him and his wife will handle, but the Packers really shouldn't factor that in to the decision on whether or not to keep him. Unless, of course, the game of football starts awarding points for faithfulness to one's spouse. If we were to compile a list of all things we don't want players who represent our organization to do, and stick to using it, then it's far to say that at least 1/2 of our current roster would be gone.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



Fair point.

However I do expect professionals, even sporting stars, to be held to a higher standard however. Just because the status quo for highly paid athletes is one of leniency in questionable personal conduct doesn't make it right.
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Pack93z
15 years ago
I haven't been to Lake Delton in the summer in years.. however in college I dated a gal that worked in the summer break there and in the Dells.

Back then, it was a mixture of college kids and adults that hadn't matured yet migrating in and working for the summer. These were what I could classify as "party" girls and guys... Many of these people would either camp for the summer or be housed by the employers in dorm like settings..

The environment may have changed in 20 years.. but I doubt it.. meaning that we could be over-reacting to a ploy by two immature 30 year old "Party" girls looking to score some fame and dough...

Or it could be a player that actually crossed the line and violated these two gals.. which is unacceptable and not worthy of being a professional player with temptations galore.

Point is.. we need to allow some more of the facts to come out before we rush to judgment. At a minimum these two gals consented to going back to his room.. A bit different than trapping a young girl in a bathroom with a body guard standing guard outside.

But Brandon, albeit a talented yet green player, has lost respect in my eyes for stepping out on his marriage. Yet there.. maybe it is a Nonstop type relationship where it is deemed acceptable. And I am just applying my bias.
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earthquake
15 years ago
Has he even been charged with anything? I think we can all chill out on the "CUT HIM NOW" stuff until he's actually charged with a crime, it seems like a lot of people are acting as if he's been convicted, before he's even charged.

So far the only thing we know he is guilty of is being a young and stupid kid.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
For fucksake. I'm married, I have kids, I sometimes go to parties. Does that somehow automatically mean that I have cheated on my wife? One of the things I despise most about being married is that everyone else seems to assume that my social life must wither simply because I went through a ceremony and said some vows. Furthermore, you have no idea what kind of agreement Underwood and his wife have. A smart woman married to a sports star (like Mrs. Manning) would understand the incredible drive these men have and wouldn't demand strict monogamy.

As for those six players, I wish I could call them pussies to their faces (the ass kicking I'd take would be worth it). If there were problems with Underwood, why weren't they complaining about it previously? And why don't they have the balls to come forward and accuse him publicly? The whisper campaign now that he's down pisses me off. We don't even know who these players are: for all we know, they could be practice squad scrubs who are jealous that he's made the roster and they haven't.

All the people jumping to conclusions on this board make me want to stop hanging out with sports fans altogether. Bunch of close-minded motherfuckers, so many of you.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

For fucksake. I'm married, I have kids, I sometimes go to parties. Does that somehow automatically mean that I have cheated on my wife? One of the things I despise most about being married is that everyone else seems to assume that my social life must wither simply because I went through a ceremony and said some vows. Furthermore, you have no idea what kind of agreement Underwood and his wife have. A smart woman married to a sports star (like Mrs. Manning) would understand the incredible drive these men have and wouldn't demand strict monogamy.

As for those six players, I wish I could call them pussies to their faces (the ass kicking I'd take would be worth it). If there were problems with Underwood, why weren't they complaining about it previously? And why don't they have the balls to come forward and accuse him publicly? The whisper campaign now that he's down pisses me off. We don't even know who these players are: for all we know, they could be practice squad scrubs who are jealous that he's made the roster and they haven't.

All the people jumping to conclusions on this board make me want to stop hanging out with sports fans altogether. Bunch of close-minded motherfuckers, so many of you.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Who's to say it wasn't said previously? Perhaps the UNNAMED (the cowardly punk that wont give their name) source feels this was the last straw for his silence?

Speaking of jumping to conclusions, who is to say there even is a unnamed source and this wasn't just some slander thrown in there by the writer?

This, like many debacles that are laid out in the public eye, lack facts, many of them. There was comments about Underwood being on the immature side from his position coach last offseason. Isn't that to be expected with someone 21/22 years old? Everyone grows up at differently. Sometimes certain experiences make us grow up faster than we normally would have.

My long-winded point is ... relax ... we don't know anything about what is going on. Everyone is trying to break the news 'first' and have the 'newest' information and while doing that, they are flinging around words that are misleading to actual events.


Edit, Rourke, I think Shawn was simply mentioning that perhaps Brandon and Brandie share a similar understanding with their physical aptitude with others as you share with your wife. I don't believe it was meant negative at all.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago

For fucksake. I'm married, I have kids, I sometimes go to parties. Does that somehow automatically mean that I have cheated on my wife? One of the things I despise most about being married is that everyone else seems to assume that my social life must wither simply because I went through a ceremony and said some vows. Furthermore, you have no idea what kind of agreement Underwood and his wife have. A smart woman married to a sports star (like Mrs. Manning) would understand the incredible drive these men have and wouldn't demand strict monogamy.

As for those six players, I wish I could call them pussies to their faces (the ass kicking I'd take would be worth it). If there were problems with Underwood, why weren't they complaining about it previously? And why don't they have the balls to come forward and accuse him publicly? The whisper campaign now that he's down pisses me off. We don't even know who these players are: for all we know, they could be practice squad scrubs who are jealous that he's made the roster and they haven't.

All the people jumping to conclusions on this board make me want to stop hanging out with sports fans altogether. Bunch of close-minded motherfuckers, so many of you.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I agree but will take it a step further. I actually seriously question why a man would get married before he turns 30 unless it's understood that he still has fooling around to do.

So, why do guys get married before they're 30 to begin with, especially athletes. Athletes are like rock stars who are like super-successful businessmen (Donald Trump immediately comes to mind). You need to have an insane work ethic to get there, and with insane work ethics come insane drives in pretty much everything else, including sex drive.

This is something that "normal" people just don't get. It goes right over their heads. Granted someone doing something against someone else's will should be punished accordingly. I'm not excusing that by any means. But I will question why a man will get married before the age of 30, especially if he has a superior drive to everyone else. And like I said, the one exception is when it's understood that he will get some outside of marriage and she's cool with that.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I've burned off my anger in the gym and I am more reasonable now. Actually, Kevin, I don't know what comment of Shawn's you're talking about. I was addressing some posts earlier in the thread that claimed Underwood obviously cheated on his wife. We don't know what their agreement is, and we don't know what the nature of the sexual contact was. "Where there's smoke, there's fire" is a platitude used as an excuse for jumping to conclusions in the absence of real evidence. I could phone in an anonymous complaint to the Green Bay police tomorrow, alleging child abuse on Kevin's part, and what's he going to do about it? People will shake their heads knowingly and say they could have seen it coming all along -- he was too stressed out, had too much on his plate -- and after all, why would someone make a complaint if there was no substance to it?

Maybe these women were assaulted. Maybe they want to make a quick buck. Maybe they just want to be in the news. Maybe they're simply whacked in the head.

In any case, if Underwood has the physical talent to rape two women at once, I want him on my team.

This story is almost as bullshit as the story my wife's ex-roommate told her: She went to a wild party, fucked 8 men in one night (without condoms, by the way), and claimed the seventh was rape. Thankfully, she had the sense not to press charges. She would have been laughed out of court.
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